Comment by Tade0

23 days ago

Humans are more complex than that. If they become aware that someone is applying such conditioning, they will defy it.

For the same reason corporal punishment doesn't work even on an average intelligence child. They quickly figure out that probability of getting punished again is not 100% and even if, that's just cost of doing business - sometimes it's worth it.

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Tade0

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matheusmoreira  23 days ago

It's not complex at all. It's just violence. People are doing things you don't want them to do, so you do something to make them stop. Pretty standard.

If they can muster defiance, it's only because you weren't violent enough. If someone is defiant enough to play probability games with you, just punish them 100% of the time instead, even if they did nothing. He was probably doing it some other time where you didn't catch him, so it's warranted.

There's always someone willing to escalate things further. Things will escalate until someone discovers their limits and backs down. Consequences range from being quietly hated, to being ostracized, to being actively fucked with, to being beaten up, to being straight up killed.

Smart people don't fuck around and find out. They check their behavior so that they don't step on other people's toes for no reason. Violence very often comes with instructions on how to avoid it. Don't do this, and I won't do that. All they have to do is listen and follow the instructions.

The outcome where the obnoxious neighbor learns his lesson and stops his bad behavior is the good ending. The behavior stops, the situation de-escalates and peace is restored. If they keep up their defiance, things will only keep escalating further. Somebody could get hurt.

  • jstanley  23 days ago

    But don't you see that if you solve your problems this way, the obnoxious neighbour can also solve their problem this way?

    "Stop making a noise or I'll beat you up"

    vs

    "Quit complaining about the noise or I'll beat you up"

    Your position just means every disagreement comes down to a physical fight. Is that how you want to live?

    Willingness to use violence to get what you want is not inherently linked to being in the right.

    • matheusmoreira  23 days ago

      > Your position just means every disagreement comes down to a physical fight.

      > Is that how you want to live?

      The threat of violence is always present. It's just that in "civilized" societies it's often indirect and abstracted. People don't usually get violent, they pay lawyers to complain to the courts which have the power to order police to commit measured amounts of violence on their behalf if necessary.

      When negotiation fails and police is unlikely to help, people quickly revert to taking matters into their own hands.

  • Tade0  23 days ago

    > Smart people don't fuck around and find out.

    Of course they do. Some of the smartest people out there are habitual risk takers. We wouldn't have organised crime if it weren't for people smart enough to not get caught or killed early on.

    Your method doesn't take into account that the person you're targeting also has a brain and they will use it against you and also that they have as much power as you do.

    Overall you're describing a power fantasy, not reality.