Comment by JCattheATM
2 days ago
> Understanding the boot process is a big part of that. systemd is about 1678 "C" files plus many data files. System V is "22" C files plus about 50 short bash scripts and data files.
Systemd is basically the Windowsfication of Linux. I'm always surprised by the people that champion it who also used to shit on Windows with the registry or whatever.
Cognitive dissonance is a hell of a thing.
LFS seems to be for people who are interested in how things work. The systemd proponents come off as people who would question why you would want to to drive a manual transmission and say of course you should choose an automatic or better yet, a robot; self driving car. It would be interesting to see how those opinions line up with the uses of AI
I have owned many manual cars, but I'm fine with systemd on all my machines. Being a nerd about one thing doesn't require me to be a nerd about other things.
It is not cognitive dissonance to learn from others. The pluggable nature of Linux makes developer lifes harder. They have to write wrappers and abstractions to use base functionality. Having a unified api surface is very attractive.
Windows did something right because you can run very old binaries on a new system. Good luck doing that on Linux.
In the end for most people Linux is not an intellectual exercise in freedom but a tool to get work done and systemd is pretty good at that and is getting better.
And another important point: systemd is still lgpl licensed software. There is literally no legal way for someone to rug pull it. So if it works and brings a benefit it might be a good thing to start to depend on it. Just like we depend on the GNU tools.
> It is not cognitive dissonance to learn from others.
I didn't say it was. I said it was to attack one binary blob abstraction while embracing another.
> Windows did something right because you can run very old binaries on a new system. Good luck doing that on Linux.
I agree, but that's entirely irrelevant.
> systemd ... works and brings a benefit it might be a good thing to start to depend on it.
We have very different philosophies, you and I.
> I said it was to attack one binary blob abstraction while embracing another.
You didn't say that but even if you meant that systemd is an open source project and it has multiple components. It is not just a binary blob. It is a coherent framework for basic system services. It is pick and choose for the most part. Most distro choose to use all of it.
I still disagree that liking systemd and disliking windows is incompatible. Windows is a closed source project, developed without much external input that has a clear monetary incentives that are often user hostile. The way it's system api works is rarely the reason for criticizing it.
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Pedantic but systemd is inspired by MacOS launchd, not by Windows services. It has nothing akin to the registry, which even microsoft admits is a pain on windows.
Oh, and usually people shit on windows for many reasons, but some of the very core features of the OS are robust and the Linux crowd could take a hint. Like, you know, the notion of service at the OS-level and not some random bash script that nohup'd a binary. Oh wait, that's what does Windows, MacOS and Linux with systemd.
I didn't say it was inspired by the registry, I just drew a comparison. In both cases you have a huge binary thing that you have to interact with through secondhand tools rather than directly.
systend units are plain text.
We generally aren't in the habit of using "random" scripts to do anything. They're usually carefully developed to do exactly what we need them to do, precisely, and nothing more. Not the giant pile of buggy ass code and security nightmare that is systemd.
By the way, you don't seem to be aware that you can use any language you want to create startup "scripts" including compiled binaries, if you hate shell scripting so much.
Do you even know any shell script? Serious question. Many 'bash' haters know nothing about the language--starting with calling it 'bash' instead of 'shell script.' There are several different flavors just of shell scripting languages, and bash is only one.