Comment by throwaway-aws9
7 hours ago
The cloud is a psyop, a scam. Except at the tiniest free-tier / near free-tier use cases, or true scale to zero setups.
I've helped a startup with 2.5M revenue reduce their cloud spend from close to 2M/yr to below 1M/yr. They could have reached 250k/yr renting bare-metal servers. Probably 100k/yr in colos by spending 250k once on hardware. They had the staff to do it but the CEO was too scared.
Cloud evangelism (is it advocacy now?) messed up the minds of swaths of software engineers. Suddenly costs didn't matter and scaling was the answer to poor designs. Sizing your resource requirements became a lost art, and getting into reaction mode became law.
Welcome to "move fast and get out of business", all enabled by cloud architecture blogs that recommend tight integration with vendor lock-in mechanisms.
Use the cloud to move fast, but stick to cloud-agnostic tooling so that it doesn't suck you in forever.
I've seen how much cloud vendors are willing to spend to get business. That's when you realize just how massive their margins are.
> The cloud is a psyop, a scam.
You're just young.
> Suddenly costs didn't matter and scaling was the answer to poor designs.
It did.
Did you know that cloud cost less than what the internal IT team at a company would charge you?
Let's say you worked on product A for a company and needed additional VM. Besides paperwork, the cost to you (for your cost center) would be more than using the company credit card for the cloud.
> Sizing your resource requirements became a lost art
In what way? We used to size for 2-4x since getting additional resources (for the in-house team) would be weeks to months. Same old - just cloud edition.
> You're just young.
And I feel great!
> Did you know that cloud cost less than what the internal IT team at a company would charge you?
Yes. Internal IT teams ran old-school are inefficient. And that's what the vendor tells you while they create shadow IT inside your company. Skip ITSM and ITIL... do it the SRE way.
Until the cloud economist (real role) comes in and finds a way to extract more rent out of their customer base (like GCP's upcoming doubling rates on CDN Interconnect). And until internal IT kills shadow IT and regains management of cloud deployments. Cybersecurity and stuff...
Back to square one. ITIL with cloud deployments. Some use cases will be way cheaper... but for your 100s of PBs of enterprise data, that's another story. And data gravity will kill many initiatives just based on bit movement costs.
> Besides paperwork, the cost to you (for your cost center) would be more than using the company credit card for the cloud.
To some extent. One is hard dollars the other is funny money. But I thought paying for cloud with the company credit card was a 2016 thing. Now it's paid through your internal IT cost center, with internal IT markup.
I've seen petabytes of data move to the cloud and then we couldn't perform some queries on it anymore as that store wouldn't support it, and we'd need to spend 7 figures to move to another cloud database to query it. And that's hard dollars.
Yes, during early cloud days it was lean and aimed at startups. Now it's aimed at enterprise, and for some reason lots of startups still think it's optimized for them. It's not and it hasn't been for a long time.
> Yes. Internal IT teams ran old-school are inefficient.
They aren't. It's politics. They want to protect and improve their own headcount and resources.
> One is hard dollars the other is funny money.
All the same to a team / department. It's not like people run it like their own wallet.
> finds a way to extract more rent out of their customer base
I find you just have a grudge against the cloud and hence too young. For every example you have the so-called "internal" IT team can and will do just the same. Go back to 90s, 00s - it was the same. The infra team wanted some fancy new storage arrays and charge everyone 2x for the new service etc.
> and for some reason lots of startups still think it's optimized for them. It's not and it hasn't been for a long time.
The problem isn't the cloud. Startups have always worked like this even 10-20 years ago. It's about wastage. They can raise and grow faster. So they think. The problem, if any is recently money isn't as cheap. Nothing new.
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