Comment by AlotOfReading
20 days ago
The additional drag is negligible. People have been producing "racing doors" with handles for decades. They focus on cutting all the other features of the door like weight and mechanical complexity instead. It's an even more irrelevant consideration for consumers, who could save far more fuel by changing how they drive.
Flush handles exist as brand differentiators. They're a "futuristic" feel-good feature that consumers want, like engine noise, tablets, and colorful dashboards.
It's about more than just one thing alone. E.g.
https://media.landrover.com/new-range-rover-sport-press-kit-...
https://usa.infinitinews.com/en-US/releases/2025-qx80-press-...
I'm unsure manufacturer's press kits are to be taken as an honest source of information : the goal of the authors is to make people love a brand, buy a product... but not to educate, share objective information or strategic choices.
Very peculiarly, everyone seems to actually agree the handles are a little more aerodynamic. It's the possibility the manufacturer's teams (except marketing, apparently) could ever have also considered this as one of several benefits when choosing the design which is at such levels of doubt. Moreso, people are willing to dismiss it saying they'd want a certain type of source instead rather than just seeing whether that kind of source does also agree.
To complete the loop on the latter: Tesla's 2012 handle patent https://patents.google.com/patent/US9103143B2/en
> Conventional door handle designs typically have less than desirable aerodynamics due to protrusion of the exterior door handle from the surface of the door and the recessed area over which it spans. As the vehicle moves, these conventional door handles interrupt the smooth surface of the door and thereby increase the overall drag of the vehicle. Depending on the size, depth, and overall shape of the recessed area, for example, the corresponding area under the door handle further contributes to reduced aerodynamics of the vehicle. Designers have not focused on improving aerodynamics in this area as the exterior door handle seems relatively small and inconsequential.
> 104 in the retracted position provides both a smooth appearance and advantageous aerodynamic qualities when the vehicle is in motion
I'm starting to wonder if an interview with David Wheeler (what a name for a car patent) et al would even be believed here at this point.
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They're not, but range rover actually published an aerodynamic study in SAE mobilus recently. They mention the door handles as part of the product design vision and offhandedly mention it's one of multiple changes that help ensure the flows coming off the front arches don't break up as they move down. They don't bother to single it out though, or even give numbers for the effect of the group (unlike more significant improvements).
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Exactly it is not science but purely cosmetic. Which for some reason makes HN mad but guess what people choose cars based on how they look and how they are marketed! There has never been a rational man. Spock is not real.
All of the things you mention are considerations that every automaker considers. Product design engineering is simply an exercise in weighting those factors, among many others.
I'm saying flush handles aren't about drag, not passing judgement on whether those other factors are bad.
Drag is absolutely one of those factors. Yes, it only contributes a small amount to the overall drag profile of the vehicle, but a vehicle is a sum of its parts ultimately.
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> Flush handles exist as brand differentiators. They're a "futuristic" feel-good feature that consumers want, like engine noise, tablets, and colorful dashboards.
Incorrect. They are most definitely there to save money on production and development costs, like all the other stuff you misattribute to brand differentiators. Consumers like lower prices, car companies like more profit. Yes, it looks fancy, but it is cheaper to produce, judt like the tablet dash.
Literally none of those are cost savings. Touchscreens are, relative to buttons, but not relative to small touchscreens (what I was actually comparing to).
I'm not sure a flush handle is actually cheaper either. The only real difference is the metal bits that connect to the latch assembly. One goes to the interior lever, one to the exterior, and one has the lock pin.
A cost-optimized flush handle gets rid of those in exchange for a motor/encoder unit. The expensive parts of the latch mechanism remain basically identical since it has to be a giant chunk of metal for safety reasons. Maybe the handle differences make up for it, but I'd want to see numbers given that it's made its way onto high end cars first.
No, really, think about it. A touch screen is literally one component plus a computer you need anyways. Buttons need scaffolding, they need to be wired, etc. If you are designing a new car today, figuring out where all those buttons go for each model is a chore, it makes production more complicated, it requires more logistics vs just a touch screen.
Flush handles have to do with creating a recess in the body for normal handles. It’s just easier to cut a hole.
I’m guessing you aren’t willing to consider that the car companies are just being thrifty rather than extravagant, but ya, it’s a win win for them if they can save on costs at the same time as being seen as fancy.
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People who race stock cars will even dip body panels into acid to make the panels thinner. Anything to reduce weight!
> It's an even more irrelevant consideration for consumers, who could save far more fuel by changing how they drive.
These are not in conflict. The energy you save from drag stacks with the energy you save from "learning how to drive".
Yeah, but making opening doors a puzzle to solve is an incredibly terrible trade off.
And that’s before we consider the other aspects of these door handle designs that make the cars a death trap.
The death trap claims come from the internal affordance, which seems to be totally independent from the exterior one.
I have a car with a "novel" handle situation. (Ford Mustand Mach E) The door is operable from the inside with a dead battery. Maybe this particular one isn't as challenging as some of the other designs, but calling it a "puzzle" definitely overstates the case. I think it took me maybe 4 seconds to figure out the first time.
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They add a tiny bit to the efficiency and/or range, they look cool (e.g. serve a gee-whiz marketing purpose), and safety evaluations in the markets where they still exist don't penalize them -- up until now they've had very little against them.
Maybe as legal and reputational backlash spreads the pros will not outweigh the cons. But someone designing a car a decade ago, marketed towards early adopter types, would have had no reason not to.
And I say this as someone who hates these handles designs personally.
I'm not presenting it as a conflict. I'm presenting it as a revealed preference of how much consumers actually try to optimize fuel use. There's significant reductions to be had completely for free (or even with savings by purchasing smaller, cheaper vehicles). And yes, the savings from flush handles are too small to show up in the MPG number.