Comment by shafyy

4 months ago

Because it's very likely against the Swiss constitution

"Against the Swiss constitution" doesn't really make sense here. This is a popular initiative; if accepted, it amends the Swiss constitution. Here's the text: https://www.bk.admin.ch/ch/d/pore/vi/vis555t.html

The only way you could argue an initiative is "against the Swiss constitution" in my opinion would be if it runs afoul of the rules: https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/eli/cc/1999/404/en#tit_4/chap_2

Unless you want to argue that this violates the mandatory provisions of international law, I don't think you have an argument. The text of the amendment specifically clarifies that any of the actions it mandates on parliament have to adhere to the mandatory provisions of international law, so I don't think that's an avenue you can pursue.

  • You are right, I forgot how xenophobic my native Switzerland is. Unlike e.g. Germany, they don't really have something in the constitution regarding helping immigrants.

    However, they do have Art. 7 (human dignity) and Art. 8 (equality before law), which applies not only to Swiss citizens, but to all humans. I don't know about you, but I would think that excluding refugees who need help because we already have 10M people in the country would be against their human dignity.

Please elaborate and send me the link to the relevant www.parlament.ch docs :)

  • Let’s pretend it’s within the constitution. How are they going to enforce this?

    For baby 10M+1 are they going to tell a Swiss woman that she can’t have a baby?

    In any case, this is definitely not conformant to the treaty that the Swiss have with the EU around rights of free movement.

    • The text of the initiative is here: https://www.bk.admin.ch/ch/d/pore/vi/vis555t.html

      It's primarily an attempt to control immigration.

      At 9.5M, the government has to start limiting the issuance of residence permits and start renegotiating international commitments that drive population growth.

      At 10M, the government has to terminate the free movement agreement with the EU.

      The right-leaning parties bring up something like this every few years. They always get shot down.

    • >For baby 10M+1 are they going to tell a Swiss woman that she can’t have a baby?

      This wouldn't happen because it's not actually a population control measure, it's an immigration control measure - when the population gets above 9.5M, Switzerland would start shutting down immigration/asylum. There's nothing in the initiative that would set controls on births by Swiss citizens. (and it would be unlikely to be needed since Switzerland is facing the same low birth rate of other western countries)

    • You need impeccable timing if you want a baby. Make sure grandma falls down the stairs first otherwise the baby will be exiled to Liechtenstein.

    • Pause working visas and citizenship applications?

      Organic population growth doesn’t have to be criminalized or authoritarian-controlled like China tried.