Comment by EastSmith
1 day ago
With OpenClaw we are seeing how the app layer becomes as important as the model layer.
You can switch models multiple times (online/proprietary, open weight, local), but you have one UI : OpenClaw.
1 day ago
With OpenClaw we are seeing how the app layer becomes as important as the model layer.
You can switch models multiple times (online/proprietary, open weight, local), but you have one UI : OpenClaw.
> You can switch models multiple times (online/proprietary, open weight, local), but you have one UI : OpenClaw.
It’s only been a couple months. I guarantee people will be switching apps as others become the new hot thing.
We saw the same claims when Cursor was popular. Same claims when Claude Code was the current topic. Users are changing their app layer all the time and trying new things.
Memory. I have built up so many scripts and crons and integrated little programs and memories with open claw it would be difficult to migrate to some other system.
System of record and all.
Considering you have built them all in last few weeks, it should not be that difficult and no reason other systems won't reuse same.
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How hard do you think it would be for ai to generate all those for some alternative?
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There will definitely be migration tools.
The new agents might have a feature to query your old agents for a migration.
That said, I find it really hard to believe that you've generated so much work in the past few weeks since OpenClaw launched that you could never migrate to something else. It hasn't been that long.
Bring your system to my records.
The irony of systems of record is that if there is more than one, there are effectively none. Just data stuck in silos waiting for compute.
Unless I am mistaken, that is all plain old markdown, arguably the easiest to migrate format for such data there can possible be.
Heck, that was half the pitch behind Obsidian, even if the project someday ended, markdown would remain. And switching between Obsidian and e.g. Logseq shows the ease of doing so.
Have you heard about this thing called AI coding agent....
Sorry but for $5 in credits you can have an agent port over all your bullshit to the next fad. I'll have one port over all my bullshit when the time comes too.
This effect isn't that important while the customer base is growing fast.
You can use OpenClaw to migrate these scripts off OpenClaw.
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Indeed, coding agents took off because of a lot of ongoing trial and error on how to build the harness as much as model quality.
This is the sort of thing employers are failing on. They sign contracts that assume employees are going to be logging in and asking questions directly.
But if I don’t have a url for my IDE (or whatever) to call, it isn’t useful.
So I use Ollama. It’s less helpful, but ensure confidentiality and compliance.
It’s only 2 months and there are already a rush of viable alternatives, from smaller, lightweight versions, to hosted, managed SaaS alternatives.
I’d suspect the moat here will be just as fragile as every other layer
openclaw is just one of many now, there are new ones weekly.
And OpenClaw is nothing revolutionary. It’s all shit we could do before OpenClaw. It’s just that no one was stupid enough to do it. Now everyone has gone crazy.
Plus you can get the model to write you a bespoke one that suits your needs.
I've been digging into how Heartbeat works in Openclaw to bring directly into Vibetunnel, another of Peter's projects
AI is the new Javascript?
Why?
You can literally ask codex to build a slim version for you overnight.
I love OpenClaw, but I really don't think there is anything that can't be cloned.
There’s actually many UI’s now? See moltis, rowboat, and various others that are popping up daily
I think the point was about the frequency of switching your frontend. With a proper frontend you can switch the backend on each request if you want, but usually people will stay with one main-interface of their choice. For AI, OpenClaw, Moltic, Rowboat are now such a frontend, but not many will use them all at once.
It's similar to how people usually only use one preferred browser, editor, shell, OS.
Are there any with a credible approach to security, privacy and prompt injections?
Does any credible approach to prompt injection even exist?
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This has been the case since the beginning of last year imo
Seems like models become commoditized?
Same for OpenClaw, it will be commodity soon if you don't think it is already
It appears to me that the same people who think “vibe coding” is a great idea, are the same people who think “Gas Town” is the future, and “OpenClaw” detractors are just falling behind.
For your sake, I’m not saying they’re wrong. I’m just pointing out something I’ve noticed.
It's definitely not right now. What else has the feature list and docs even resembling it?
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Not sure. I mean the tech yes definitely.
But the community not.
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It has already been so with ppq.ai (pay per query dot AI)
I mean, ppq.ai (which I’ve never heard of) had zero to do with the commoditisation of LLMs. The industry did that. And services like OpenRouter are far more serious and responsible in this area than this ppq.ai is.
Things that arn't happening any time soon but need to for actual product success built on top:
1. Stable models
2. Stable pre- and post- context management.
As long as they keep mothballing old models and their interderminant-indeterminancy changes, whatever you try to build on them today will be rugpulled tomorrow.
This is all before even enshittification can happen.
This is the underrated risk that nobody talks about enough. We've already seen it play out with the Codex deprecation, the GPT-4 behavior drift saga, and every time Anthropic bumps a model version.
The practical workaround most teams land on is treating the model as a swappable component behind a thick abstraction layer. Pin to a specific model version, run evals on every new release, and only upgrade when your test suite passes. But that's expensive engineering overhead that shouldn't be necessary.
What's missing is something like semantic versioning for model behavior. If a provider could guarantee "this model will produce outputs within X similarity threshold of the previous version for your use case," you could actually build with confidence. Instead we get "we improved the model" and your carefully tuned prompts break in ways you discover from user complaints three days later.
? We saw this years/months ago with Claude Code and Cursor.
But it just codes. And are console / ide tools.
Openclaw is so so so much more.
That’s missing the point. OpenClaw is just one of many apps in its class. It, too, will fall out of favor as the next big thing arrives.
What’s the moat exactly?
None. That's why joining openai is the perfect fit.
Well, duh.
You being able to go places is the interesting thing, your car having wheels is just a subservient prerequisite.