Comment by iberator
1 month ago
My stance is Mossad reading:
- Likud is an evil political party
- Natanyahu is a wanted war criminal
- IDF committed many atrocities
- Hamas was insane to think that Bibi would NOT BOMB the Gaza in retaliation.
- Hamas was the first to cast the stone.
- Israel ALWAYS gonna retaliate with non proportional force when it comes to security of its citizens.
> Hamas was the first to cast the stone.
Palestine is a country under a brutal military occupation and progressive illegal colonisation that has been going on for 80 years. Before October 7, Israel had already killed many, many more civilians in Gaza than Hamas did in Israel with that attack.
> Palestine is a country under a brutal military occupation and progressive illegal colonisation that has been going on for 80 years.
If Mexico had started attacking the US across the border, what would the US do? I'm curious to hear what you think a country should do in this circumstance.
Are the US currently illegally occupying large parts of Mexico and progressively colonising it, displacing and oppressing the Mexican population?
And if that were the case, would you say that Mexico had started attacking the US across the border? Or would you say that the US are waging war against Mexico and Mexico is fighting back?
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> Israel had already killed many, many more civilians in Gaza than Hamas did in Israel with that attack.
And how does it justify Hamas killing unarmed civilians? How does it justify Hamas lobbing grenades at Nepali students?
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy0kllzqk1vo
That's not what I am answering to, but the assertion "Hamas threw the first stone". No it didn't.
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There isn't really a single way to define a country. For background, I would recommend this video from the Map Men: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nB688xBYdY
But following their conclusion: the thing that makes you a country is being recognized as one by other countries. Most of the world recognizes Palestine as a country (including 157 UN member states). Here is a map where the green countries recognize Palestine, and grey do not: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/08/Palestin...
What are the Palestinians then?
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oh nice, you are making us all sob with those tough words
Many countries disagree with that. However, virtually everyone agree that it is not Israeli territory.
When you know what father of Israel did during WW2 to fund the current Israel.
Uhg, too bad its not taught in school coz history is written by winners and you have to search for it yourself.
Yes Israel commits an ongoing genocide.
And I look at this only by lens of history.
> Hamas was insane to think that Bibi would NOT BOMB the Gaza in retaliation.
My theory is that they knew this would happen and they did it because they knew it would garner support (which it did) and they also knew they had nothing to lose because this is what would have happened in the long-term anyway. They chose between a quick death and a slow death. Unfortunately, everyone else who originally chose them to protect them didn't get to choose. I doubt most would have voted for this if they had that choice.
Let's also not forget that Hamas still exists and is regaining numbers and territory: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c98g1klxnpxo
You can't just stamp out a guerilla resistance the way Israel have tried to do. I suspect Hamas reckoned that a well-timed short term sacrifice would turn global opinion against Israel.
Well they still have the full support of the usa government, and I'm pretty sure that even democrats would still keep supporting Israel.
So what did they really lost? Do they even care that some Europeans don't like them ? Europeans are not the one who sell them 99% of their weapons.
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Now that the world has knowingly seen a genocide and done virtually nothing, and that the US continues to openly support Israel, I think this was a massive victory for Israel.
The genocide and ethnic cleansing Israel is committing is the best recruitment campaign for Hamas.
Most people in Gaza now aren't old enough to have voted for Hamas. Median age is estimated to be under 20.
Doesn't matter, there is always going to be resistance against the occupation anyway, if it isn't called "Hamas" its going to be called something else. This is not an enemy they can ever defeat and people either know what that means or are too afraid to think that far. You just can't have other peoples land, you just can't, not without vaporizing (literally [1]) the people you took it from.
[1] https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2026/2/10/israel-used-wea...
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> They chose between a quick death and a slow death.
It continues to be strange to me that "not choosing death" was apparently never an option.
>My theory is that they knew this would happen and they did it because they knew it would garner support (which it did) and they also knew they had nothing to lose because this is what would have happened in the long-term anyway. They chose between a quick death and a slow death. Unfortunately, everyone else who originally chose them to protect them didn't get to choose. I doubt most would have voted for this if they had that choice.
Maybe. I actually think they didnt expect to be so successful also.
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Is that the same cooperation seen in the West Bank where Israel keeps sending settlers and make Palestine land smaller and smaller every single year?
I highly recommend to watch the Oscar winning movie “no other land”, for anyone that thinks that Israel would just let them leave in peace
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Gaza has been under a near-total naval blockade since 2007 (which is an act of war BTW). Any meaningful "reduction of tensions" would have included lifting that.
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That's not a counterpoint to what I said.
Uh, was this happening 1967-87? Because they were sure more integrated before the First Intifada
I also almost believe that top echelons of Israeli intelligence knew about the upcoming attack, but they didn't expect THAT many fatalities and that Hamas were going to take hostages alive.
That's interesting. It could be. Maybe some day we'll find out.
A never ending conflict is what maintain the Likoud in power. This far right party and government has no interest in peace and is insulting the memory of the people who died in the holocaust.
> Hamas was the first to cast the stone.
That is ignoring many decades of history.
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> Israel ALWAYS gonna retaliate with non proportional force when it comes to security of its citizens.
This is the logic of conflicts in the middle east and many or probably most parts of the world. If you don't retaliate hard and defend yourself thoroughly, it is seen as weakness. Not much more sophisticated than how bullying works.
Sounds as if you're defending genocide style killing civilians.
Israel was attacked, you are mixing that up.
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Reminds me of Tiananmen square in regard to how stubbornly westerners insist that NOTHING happened in Gaza before 7/23
The point isn't that nothing happened, it is that nothing _that justifies_ the attack happened.
Nothing justifies the attack on civilians because collective punishment is a war crime and a crime against humanity.
The military objectives were entirely justified though (taking out IDF bases, attempting to capture IDF soldiers, and attempting to liberate several-thousand Palestinians being held by Israel)
Of the 6000 people from Gaza who entered Israel that day, at most 12% were responsible for one of the 800 civilian casualties in Israel. If you consider that the minority who decided to target civilians were likely responsible for targeting multiple civilians, and that some number (at least 4 who are known) of those deaths resulted from the actions of the IDF, it's entirely possible fewer than 8% of insurgents targeted and killed civilians.
All told, fewer civilians were killed proportionately than have been killed in Israel's response.
What type of resistance would you have recommended Palestinians engage in prior to October 7? They tried non-violent resistance and were met with lethal force.
Attacking the people who stole your land and murdered your family is justified in my book. I don't think I'm alone, very few people globally support Israel.
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It was the point.
> - Hamas was the first to cast the stone.
Saying that it was Hamas who casted the first stone on 7 oct, is basically saying nothing happened before. Which is plain wrong. It's the consequence of decades of oppression, crimes, and unstopping massacre from the colonial occupier.
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- Hamas is well-funded by Israel (to false flag?).
It's not a secret. It started in the 80s and lasted until they won the election in 2005. It's not a conspiracy theory, this is History. Official History everyone one agrees on, even israel and Hamas themselves.
> Hamas was the first to cast the stone.
HAMAS is an entity formed by refugees having fled the nakba and been stored on top of each other in an open air prison.