The disconnect here for me is, I assume the DoW and Anthropic signed a contract at some point and that contract most likely stipulated that these are the things they can do and these are the things they can't do.
I would assume the original terms the DoW is now railing against were in those original contracts that they signed. In that case it looks like the DoW is acting in bad faith here, they signed the original contact and agreed to those terms, then they went back and said no, you need to remove those safeguards to which Anthropic is (rightly so) saying no.
Am I missing something here?
EDIT: Re-reading Dario's post[1] from this morning I'm not missing anything. Those use cases were never part of the original contacts:
> Two such use cases have never been included in our contracts with the Department of War
So yeah this seems pretty cut and dry. Dow signed a contract with Anthropic and agreed to those terms. Then they decided to go back and renege on those original terms to which Anthropic said no. Then they promptly threw a temper tantrum on social media and designated them as a supply chain risk as retaliation.
My final opinion on this is Dario and Anthropic is in the right and the DoW is acting in bad faith by trying to alter the terms of their original contracts. And this doesn't even take into consideration the moral and ethical implications.
The administration's approach to contracts, agreements, treaties and so on could be summed up as 'I am altering the deal. Pray I do not alter it further.'
The basic problem in our polity is that we've collectively transferred the guilty pleasure of aligning a charismatic villain in fiction to doing the same in real life. The top echelons of our government are occupied by celebrities and influencers whose expertise is in performance rather than policy. For years now they've leaned into the aesthetics of being bad guys, performative cruelty, committing fictional atrocities, and so forth. Some MAGA influencers have even adopted the Imperial iconography from Star Wars as a means of differentiating themselves from liberal/democratic adoption of the 'rebel' iconography. So you have have influencers like conservative entrepreneur Alex Muse who styles his online presence as an Imperial stormtrooper. As Poe's law observes, at some point the ironic/sarcastic frame becomes obsolete and you get political proxies and members of the administration arguing for actual infringements of civil liberties, war crimes, violations of the Constitution and so on.
I think it's the other way around. They have always wanted to do those cruel things that have real victims. It took them many years of dedicated, coordinated efforts as they slowly inched many systems to align with their insane ideas. The villain branding is just that - branding. Many of them actually like the 'bad guys' in those stories, especially if those bad guys are portrayed as strong, uncompromising, militaristic, inhumane, and having simple, memorable iconography that instills fear - the more allusions to real life fascists, the better. But that enjoyment follows from their ideology and what they want to do in the world, not the other way around.
> *Isn’t it unreasonable for Anthropic to suddenly set terms in their contract?* The terms were in the original contract, which the Pentagon agreed to. It’s the Pentagon who’s trying to break the original contract and unilaterally change the terms, not Anthropic.
> *Doesn’t the Pentagon have a right to sign or not sign any contract they choose?* Yes. Anthropic is the one saying that the Pentagon shouldn’t work with them if it doesn’t want to. The Pentagon is the one trying to force Anthropic to sign the new contract.
I just wish there was a stronger source on this. I am inclined to agree you and the source you cited, but unfortunately
> [1] This story requires some reading between the lines - the exact text of the contract isn’t available - but something like it is suggested by the way both sides have been presenting the negotiations.
I deal with far too many people who won't believe me without 10 bullet-proof sources but get very angry with me if I won't take their word without a source :(
It isn't about commercial agreements, it's about patriotism. The national industry is supposed to submit to the military's wishes to the extent that they get compensated. Here it's a question or virtue.
The Pentagon feels it isn't Anthropic to set boundaries as to how their tech is used (for defense) since it can't force its will, then it bans doing business with them.
Regardless of the original contract, it's entirely appropriate for a vendor to tell the customer how to use any materials.
Imagine a _leaded_ pipe supplier not being allowed to tell the department of war they shouldn't use leaded pipes for drinking water! It's the job of the vendor to tell the customer appropriate usage.
Claude Opus is just remarkably good at analysis IMO, much better than any competitor I’ve tried. It was remarkably good and complete at helping me with some health issues I’ve had in the past few months. If you were to turn that kind of analytical power in a way to observe the behaviour of American citizens and to change it perhaps, to make them vote a certain way. Or something like - finding terrorists, finding patterns that help you identify undocumented people.
Yep. Choosing not to renew a contract with a provider who has voluntarily excluded itself from your use case is respecting that provider's choice and acting accordingly.
Not in software though. Clear precedent has been established via EULAs. Software companies set the rules and if users don't like, they can piss off. I don't see why it would be any different for the government.
> Regardless of the original contract, it's entirely appropriate for a vendor to tell the customer how to use any materials.
Utter nonsense. When the US built the Blackbird, it could only use titanium because of the heat involved in traveling at that speed. But they didn't have enough titanium in the US. So the the US created front companies to purchase titanium from the Soviet Union.
Do you think the US should have informed the Soviet Union what it wanted to do with the metal?
Yes, it's officially still the Department of Defense.
If this were a news outline writing "Department of War" I would be concerned. But in the case of the Anthropic CEO's blog post, I can understand why they are picking their fights.
It's a silly shibboleth, but I automatically ignore anyone who calls it the Department of War or Gulf of America. Hasn't steered me wrong yet. They're telling me they're the kind of people who only care about defending fascism.
They can, however, rename their Twitter/X accounts and vacate the @SecDef handle, which seems to be up for grabs now, if anyone wants to do the funniest thing...
Of all the silly things that Trump did, I think this one is the most reasonable. This has always been a department of war. Calling it defense was propaganda.
the entire administration negotiates in bad faith. literally every agreement they sign whether it's international trade or corporate contracts is up to the whim of a toddler with twitter
And they don’t think anything through. If they do this then Amazon, Google and the rest will need to terminate their involvement with Anthropic. Trump will be getting a call from some Wall Street bigwigs imminently and it’ll get rolled back, I bet.
Contract law will certainly be a casualty once Rule of Law has completely been broken. I don’t understand why the business sector isn’t pushing back more. Surely they must all know that the legal legal context itself, within which they all operate, is at mortal risk and that Business as Usual will vanish once autocratic capture is complete.
My main takeaway from all of this is that Hegseth seems deeply unfit for his job. First there was the Signal leak and now this.
Look, Anthropic is not going to be designated a supply chain risk. 80% of the Fortune 500 have contracts with them. Probably a similar percentage of defense contractors. Amazon is a defense contractor for example. They'd have to remove Claude from their AWS offerings. Everyone running Claude on AWS, boom gone. The level of disruption to the US economy would be off the charts, and for what? Why? Because Hegseth had a bad day? Because he's a sore loser?
If he's decided he doesn't like the DoW's contract then he can cancel it, fine. To try and exact revenge on the best American frontier model along with 80% of the Fortune 500 in the process, to go out of his way to harm hundreds or perhaps thousands of American firms, defies all reason. This is behavior you would expect any adult would understand as petty and foolish, let alone one who's made it to the highest ranks of government.
So I think it's just not going to happen, Trump's statement on the matter notably didn't mention a supply chain risk designation. This suggests to me that Hegseth went off half cocked. The guy is a liability for Trump at this point, I'm guessing he won't last much longer.
I assume those agreements were probably signed before the current fascist regime running the US government and now they want to upend the terms of said agreement to allow in more fascism to aforementioned contract.
| then they went back and said no, you need to remove those safeguards to which Anthropic is (rightly so) saying no.
So one thing to call out here is that the assumption that DoW is working on specifically these use cases is not bullet proof. They simply may not want to share with anthropic exactly what they are working on for natsec issues. /we can't tell you/ could violate the terms.
It is also dumb that DoW accepted these terms in the first place.
Is this matter about publicly available model or private model? For publicly available model like opus 4.6, bad actors can do whatever they want and Anthropic won't know.
If this is only about private custom model, designating public model as supply chain risk doesn't make sense as others can use it.
If anyone is the epitomy of arrogance, it is Hegseth.
No doubt the US Gov't will be using A I to perform automated military strikes without human supervision. and spying on US citizens (which they already have been doing for decades now).
Look no further than the case of patriot Mark Klein, a former AT&T technician, exposed a massive NSA surveillance program in 2006, revealing that AT&T allowed the government to intercept, copy, and monitor massive amounts of American internet traffic. Klein discovered a secret, NSA-controlled room—Room 641A—inside an AT&T facility in San Francisco, which acted as a splitter for internet traffic.
With this administration, after all their proven lies, when in doubt, assume bad faith on their part. Assuming good faith at this point is Lucy and Charlie Brown and the football, but now the football is fascism (i.e., state control of corporations, e.g., what Trump administration is doing here).
Trump has historically stiffed his contractors. Why do you think his administration would be any different with adhering to a contract?
It's not recent news that Anthropic has (had?) DoD contracts. This is a lot of words to write while seeming ignorant of basic facts about the situation.
This is an interesting perspective, but I think the fallout from sticking to his guns here is probably greater than the public blowback he would receive from serving the DoD. Without this specific sticking point, the public would know that Anthropic was serving the DoD, but not what specifically the model was being used for, and it would be difficult to prove it wasn't something relatively innocuous.
I was pondering the same thing and to me the answer is a contractor sold something to the DoD and Anthropic pulled the rug out from under that contractor and the DoD isn't happy about losing that.
My speculation is the "business records" domestic surveillance loophole Bush expanded (and that Palantir is build to service). That's usually how the government double-speaks its very real domestic surveillance programs. "It's technically not the government spying on you, it's private companies!" It's also why Hegseth can claim Anthropic is lying. It's not about direct government contracts. It's about contractors and the business records funnel.
Yes, I assumed a mass surveillance Palantir program also. Interesting take on how it allows them to claim “we are not doing this” while asking Anthropic to do it.
Of course they can just say - we aren’t, Palantir is.
Wow, and the only restrictions Anthropic asked for are (1) no mass domestic surveillance and (2) require human-in-the-loop for killing [1]. Those seem exceptionally reasonable, and even rather weak, lol :|
Anthropic had these conditions in their contract from the very beginning, in contracts negotiated under Biden. It is their actual principled stance, not maneuvering.
Trump doesn't want another election to happen. He needs some powerful tools to ensure that happens, ie, massive scale ai surveillance and manipulation. Eg, like Xi uses in China. I bet anyone here he starts a war as his excuse
In an interview with Zelinsky Trump asks "why haven't you had an election? " Zelensky
: "because we are at war" you can see the idea percolating then. People think I'm a nutter for suggesting there just won't be another election but that's where my money is. I'm waiting for his version of the Gestapo, ICE seems to be a proving ground
Their intention is to turn it against the American people. Hegseth literally wrote a book about eliminating democrats from the US, and this surprises people.
That's the restrictions for now. New restrictions could be added later or the situation of the world could change where those no longer seem reasonable. The military needs that ability to move fast and not be held back.
Even the most cockeyed reading of history will tell you that it is absolutely vital to the survival of humanity and all that is good on this earth that the US military be tied down and held back.
Anthropic specifically called out systems "that take humans out of the loop entirely and automate selecting and engaging targets".
I take that to mean they don't want the military using Claude to decide who to kill. As a hyperbolic yet frankly realistic example, they don't want Claude to make a mistake and direct the military to kill innocent children accidentally identified as narco-terrorists.
At least, that's the most charitable interpretation of everything going on. I suspect they are also worried that the sitting administration wants to use AI to help them execute a full autocratic takeover of the United States, so they're attempting to kill one of the world's most innovative companies to set an example and pressure other AI labs into letting their technology be used for such purposes.
There are enough idiots involved who "heard about this AI thing" that would demand someone make a Claude-based kill bot. Do not underestimate the disconnect from reality of senior military leadership. They easily forget that everyone who works for them are legally obligated to laugh at their jokes.
You make a valid point. Dario suggests that DoD wants to have the capacity to do domestic surveillance and autonomous killing. Sean Parnell said the DoD doesn't want those capacities. These statements are in conflict. Them talking past each other is one possibility. Without much evidence except the track record of the Trump administration, I think it is much more likely that Sean Parnell is lying.
So they are such a risk to national security that no contractor that works with the federal government may use them, but they're going to keep using them for six more months? So I guess our national security is significantly at risk for the next six months?
SCOTUS says POTUS is above the law, so POTUS has collected $4B in bribe / protection money since taking office 13 months ago. Anthropic has lots of money at the moment. Why should they be allow to keep it?
Since they didn't pay off the president (enough?), his goons are going to screw with their revenue and run a PR smear campaign.
Once you realize it only has to do with Trump's personal finances, and nothing to do with national security or the rule of law, then all the administration's actions make perfect rational sense.
Open question: How much should a congress-critter charge Trump for a favorable vote? (The check should come with a presidential pardon in the envelope, of course...)
From what i understand, Palentir using Claude during the capturing of Maduro is the reason all this started, as Anthropic did not agree their systems were used that way. [1]
Obviously Palentir and others need time to migrate off Anthropic’s products. The way i read it is that Anthropic made a serious miscalculation by joining the DoD contracts last year, you can’t have these kind of moral standards and at the same time have Palentir as a customer. The lack of foresight is interesting.
They are the same amount of ‘risk’ to national security that the various ‘emergencies’ the executive branch has used as legal excuses to do otherwise illegal things are emergencies.
Congress is negligent in not reigning this kind of thing in. We’re rapidly falling down so many slippery semantic slopes.
> Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect
For this administration the law isn't something that binds them, but something they can use against others.
Dont forget Nvidia technology was condsidered too sensitive to be exported to China....until the Trump administration decided they could export it if they paid a 10% export tax.
The part of this you're missing is that China doesn't want it [1].
Why? Because China will make their own. This has been obvious to me for at least 1-2 years. The US doesn't allow EUV lithography machines from ASML to be exported to China either. I believe the previous export ban on the most advanced chip was a strategic error because it created a captive market of Chinese customers for Chinese chips.
China will replicate EUV far quicker than Western governments expect. All it takes is to throw money at a few key ASML engineers and researchers and the commitment of the state to follow through with this project, which they will.
I'm absolutely reminded of the atomic bomb. This created quite the debate in military and foreign policy circles about what to do. The prevailing presumption was that the USSR would take 20 years to develop their own bomb if it ever happened.
It took 4 years.
And then in 1952 the US detonated the first thermonuclear bomb. The USSR followed suit in 1953.
The Trump administration tends to use this playbook.
Putting aside my take, I’m trying to objectively make sure I’m grounded on what is likely to happen next, without confusing “what is” with “what is ok”.
Don't make the mistake of thinking their words have meaning. They see a way to punish the company, they take it. Same thing with declaring a national emergency to impose tariffs. There's no supply chain risk, no national emergency, but that doesn't stop them.
I agree in this sense: Hegseth's Dept. of War doesn't want any restrictions. I'll try to make the case this is self-defeating, assuming one has genuine, long-term national interests at the front of mind (which I think is lacking or at least confused in Hegseth).
Historically, other (wiser) SecDefs would decide more carefully. They are aware when their actions would position DoD outside of reasonable ethical norms, as defined both by their key personnel as well as broader culture. I think they would recognize Hegseth's course of action as having two broadly negative effects:
1. Technology, Employees, Contractors. Jeopardizes DoD's access to the best technology. Undermines efforts in hiring the best people. Demotivates existing employees and contractors. Bullying leads to fearful contractors who perform worse. Fewer good contractors show up. Trumpist corruption further degrades an already lagging, sluggish, inefficient system.*
2. Goodwill & Effectiveness. Damages international goodwill that takes a long time to restore. Goodwill is a good investment; it pays dividends for U.S. military strength. The fallout will distract Hegseth from legitimately important duties and further undermine his credibility. Leading probably to a political mess for Hegseth, undermining his political capital.
* Improving DoD procurement is already hard given existing constraints. Adding Trumpist-level corruption makes it unnecessarily worse. There is already an unsavory, poorly tracked, bloated gravy train around the military industrial complex.**
** BUT... Despite all this, the system has more or less worked reasonably well for more than what, 80 years! It has enjoyed bipartisan continuity, kept scientists and mathematicians well funded, and spurred lots of useful industries. It is, in a weird gnarly way, a sort of flux capacitor for U.S. technical dominance.
> So I guess our national security is significantly at risk for the next six months?
That does seem to be what Hegseth is arguing, yes; and that is presumably his justification for doing something drastic here. Although I assume he is lying or wrong.
And as a cynic, let me just add that the image of someone going to the political overseers of the US military with arguments about being "effective" or "altruistic" is just hilarious given their history over the last ~40 years.
Any documentation regarding the claim about breaking their contract?
Haven't heard that. Regardless, as someone who works with these models daily (as well as company leadership that loves AI more than they understand it) - Anthropic is absolutely right to say that the military shouldn't be allowed to use it for lethal, autonomous force.
The United States has freedom of speech. The Supreme Court has ruled that money is speech. A company can always direct their money, speech, however they like with regards to the government. Can you be sued for breach of contract? Sure. Is it a supply chain risk absolutely not.
> They are a "supply chain risk" if they can willy-nilly break their contract with US govt and enforce arbitrary rules to service.
It is the US govt that seeks to break their contract with Anthropic.
The contract they signed had the safeguards, so they were mutually agreed upon. These safeguards against fully autonomous killbots and AI spying of US citizens was known before signing.
This conflict now is because the US govt regrets what they agreed to in the contract.
> completely understandable decision from a neutral third party PoV.
Except it's not, really. If Anthropic/Claude doesn't mean the DoD's need, they can and should just put out an RFP for other LLM providers. I'm sure there's plenty of others that'd happily forgo their morals for that sweet government contract money.
No US company has to provide services to the DoD or any other branch of government. It's not "veto power" it's being selective of who you do business with, which is 100% legal.
Then you go to another supplier. But any company with proper counsel will tell them the same thing: don't break the law, which is exactly what they're trying to coerce Anthropic into doing. DoD requests do not supersede the law.
Not unless they're the sole supplier of the technology. They're saying, if you want to do this kind of thing - not with our product, but you can get it elsewhere.
No, you are the one lying trying to get political gotchas here. There is no "trying to exert veto power" absolutely anywhere, Anthropic's terms were laid out in the contract the Pentagon signed, which they want to forcibly amend. If they didn't like the terms, they didn't need to sign the contract.
It's also a very clear differentiator for them relative to Google, Facebook, and OpenAI, all of whom are clearly varying degrees of willing to sell themselves out for evil purposes.
It will also cost openai dearly if they don't communicate clearly, because I for one will internally push to switch from openai (we are on azure actually) to anthropic. Besides that my private account also.
This whole saga is extremely depressing and dystopic.
Anthropic is holding firm on incredibly weak red lines. No mass surveillance for Americans, ok for everyone else, and ok to automatic war machines, just not fully unmanned until they can guarantee a certain quality.
This should be a laughably spineless position. But under this administration it is taken as an affront to the president and results in the government lashing out.
If you're a billionaire there's no risk to "sticking to principles", so there's nothing to admire. Also that's not what they're doing. These are calculated moves in a negotiation and the trump regime only has 3 years left. Even a CEO can think 4 years ahead.
It's probably in Anthropic's interest to throw grok to these clowns and watch them fail to build anything with it for 3 years.
i disagree. 3 years is an insanely long time in the AI space. The entire industry pretty much didn't even exist three years ago! Or at least not within 4 orders of magnitude.
Also, every other company has bent the knee and kissed the ring. And the trump admin will absolutely do everything they can to not appear weak and harm Anthropic. If it was so easy to act principled, don't you think other companies would've refused too? Eg Apple
And there is real harm here. You're reading about it - they get labeled a supply chain risk. This is negative and very tangible
why does it need to be a completely different, trained model? AWS doesn't provide unique technologies in their goverment cloud, beyond isolation and firewalled access; Anthropic can do the same thing. Probably need to cough up enough to register a new domain name!
So much left unsaid. So much implied. Let’s make it explicit and talk about it. Here are some follow questions that reasonable people will ask:
What was Anthropic’s role in the Maduro operation? (Or we can call it state-sponsored kidnapping.) Who knew what and when? Did A\ find itself in a position where it contradicted its core principles?
More broadly, how does moral culpability work in complex situations like this?
How much moral culpability gets attributed to a helicopter manufacturer used in the Maduro operation? (Assuming one was; you can see my meaning I hope.)
P.S. Traditional programming is easy in comparison to morality.
Good. I'd rather not have my favorite AI from a company working on AGI to have murder and spying in it's DNA.
In fact, as a patriotic American veteran, I'd be ok with Anthropic moving to Europe. It might be better for Claude and AGI, which are overriding issues for me.
Rutger Bregman @rcbregman
This is a huge opportunity for Europe. Welcome Anthropic with open arms. Roll out the red carpet. Visa for all employees.
Europe already controls the AI hardware bottleneck through ASML. Add the world's leading AI safety lab and you have the foundations of an AI superpower.
> Good. I'd rather not have my favorite AI from a company working on AGI to have murder and spying in it's DNA.
Anthropic made it quite clear they are cool with spying in general, just not domestic spying on Americans, and their "no killbots" pledge was asterisked with "because we don't believe the technology is reliable enough for those stakes yet". The implication being that they absolutely would do killbots once they think they can nail the execution (pun intended).
I suppose you could say they're taking the high road relative to their peers, but that's an extremely low bar.
I wouldn't say it's clear. People keep pointing to the wording used in the statement to say it, but I wonder if it has to do with constitutionally; domestic surveillance of people in the US without a warrant is against the constitution, and surveillance of non-citizens outside the U.S is not. Can they even be compelled by the executive branch to do an action that may be unconstitutional?
Canada is another option. Canada has significant AI research institutes going back decades ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mila_(research_institute) ) that have produced much of the foundational research that backs today's AI models.
For Americans and international researchers it's easy to get visas there quickly. It's not far at all for Americans to relocate to or visit. Electricity is cheap and clean. Canada has the most college educated adults per capita. The country's commitment to liberalism, and free markets, is also seeming more steadfast than the US at this point in time.
Canada faces obstacles with its much smaller VC ecosystem, its smaller domestic market, and the threat of US economic aggression. Canada's recent trade deals are likely to help there.
I say this all as an American who is loyal to American values first and foremost. If the US wants to move away from its core values I hope other countries, like Canada or the EU, can carry on as successful examples for the US to eventually return to.
Do all of the employees want to move to Europe suddenly? Unless it’s the UK or Ireland, do they speak the local language? If it is the UK or Ireland, do they prefer the weather in California? Do they have children in school or in college locally? Do they have family they’d rather not move 9 time zones away from? Elderly parents they’re taking care of?
I have my doubts about Anthropic wanting to pick up and move the entire company to Europe even if Ursula von der Leyen personally signed their visas. Maybe only if the government tried to nationalise their proprietary models.
Where is this text located? I googled "Anthropic Constitution" and found "Claude Constitution" (this this the same thing to you? I don't think the company Claude has a "constitution" itself.
Within the Claude Constitution, the words "non-western" do not appear. Where is your quote from?
Why wouldn’t the government just arrest their board and execs on charges of treason or something? At this point they could probably publicly hang them all and a plurality of Americans would cheer it. I don’t know if you appreciate how disliked tech is by the left and right alike.
The left would never support that lawlessness: opposition to AI is based on things like ethics, environmental impact, etc. which are predicated on concepts like the rule of law. People are calling for regulation or UBI, mor killings.
The right has far more talk of violence, true, but a lot of that is targeted rhetoric to keep voters riled up, and it’s not aimed at American businesses. I’d be surprised if even a third of Republicans supported anything more than not doing business with Anthropic. Even the Nvidia shakedown got a ton of criticism and that’s just money.
"I can state flatly that heavier than air flying machines are impossible.
— Lord Kelvin, 1895"
I'm sure this doesn't apply to you since you're not Lord Kelvin. On the other hand, people like Peter Norvig state in a popular AI textbook that, for example, they don't know why similar concepts appear close by in the vector space, so maybe you just know something other people don't.
I'm not taking a position here but the person you're replying to stated that Anthropic are working on AGI, not that their current LLM offering will evolve into AGI.
Europe doesn’t give a shit about another American company and their employees trying to dominate their markets and import their workaholic American culture. They will tell Anthropic to go home.
"Europe" is not a single entity with uniform opinions. As an European, I would much rather have hardworking people and """workaholic""" culture than regress to an underdeveloped culture fueled by laziness.
Europe doesn't have a culture of throwing illimitate money at startups with little hope of getting anything back. Which is probably due to not having petrodollars.
Topics like this are where I struggle with HN philosophy. Normally avoiding politics and ideology where possible, created higher quality and more interesting discussions.
But how do you even begin to discuss that Tweet or this topic without talking about ideology and to contextualize this with other seemingly unrelated things currently going on in the US?
I genuinely don't think I'm conversationally agile enough to both discuss this topic while still able to avoid the political/ideological rabbit-hole.
You can't discuss this topic without broaching the idea that the government is acting in bad faith — that they don't actually believe that Anthropic is a supply-chain risk and that this action is meant to punish the company. But this is in the HN guidelines regarding comments:
> Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith.
If a commenter who supports the government makes the same argument that the government is making, the guidelines tell us to assume good faith.
My conclusion is that any topic where a commenter might be making a bad faith argument is outside the scope of Hacker News.
My interpretation of that is that I’m required to assume good faith on behalf of other commenters. So, if someone makes the same argument as the government, I’m supposed to assume good faith there, but nothing requires me to assume good faith on behalf of the government. So I can say that this is obviously a shakedown without breaking the rules.
I've been on hn for years and I see this kind of sentiment raised all the time. It is not my understanding of the guidelines.
Politics and ideology are not off topic, provided the subject matter is of interest, or "gratifying", to colleagues in the tech/start-up space.
What's important is that we don't use rhetoric, bad faith or argumentation to force our views on others. But expressing our opinions about how policy affects technology and vice versa has always been welcome, in my observation.
So, what do you think about the US government's decision, and why?
Everything is political. All of our tech exists within society, and the actions of the government shape the incentives of every actor and the framework we exist in.
HN likes to pretend otherwise, especially when it's inconvenient.
Being a hacker used to be an extremely political and ideological movement. Then capitalism came along and bought the term. It's about time we take that word back where it belongs.
Tell me, oh sage, how it was possible to become a hacker before "capitalism" created the computers needed to do so? And no, hacking was not "an extremely political and ideological movement", it was (and is) the a[c,r]t of going down as deep the rabbit hole of whatever the was to be hacked as time and the hole allowed to see what lurks there. The term was eventually co-opted by the media - not "capitalism" - to identify those who broke into networks and computers but that does not need to bother you. There have been and are those who combine - usually anti-authoritarian - politics with hacking but they were and are only a part of the whole.
Don't you ever get tired of spouting that grade school "muh capitalism bad" pablum, of being what Lenin supposedly called a "useful idiot"? Also, who are the "we" who you think should "take back" the word hacking? In what way would this be "taking back" instead of "taking over"? If you think it should be "extremely political and ideological" it would surely be the latter. Would your definition of hacking have room for those who dared to venture beyond your "extremely political and ideological" boundaries or those who just want to hack without needing to wear the right buttons, pins and clothes?
>Topics like this are where I struggle with HN philosophy. Normally avoiding politics and ideology where possible, created higher quality and more interesting discussions.
Our whole society runs on technology. All tech is inherently political.
A "no politics" stance is merely an endorsement of the status quo.
Welcome to reality. HN likes to pretend politics is something you can just look away from and ignore. That’s a mighty big privilege, which makes sense since HN skews cis-white-het-male. That’s not a lie. It is easy to ignore this when it doesn’t touch them. But now it DOES touch them, and you’ve just discovered what every oppressed group in history has to live with: politics doesn’t just go away if you ignore it.
If the last ten years have taught us anything it's that politics just isn't a topic isolated to the halls of government. It's real life. Political alignment has never so starkly indicative of your position on fundamental human morality. At the same time we've never had a government be so directly involved in private businesses.
Why would you want to be non-political in 2026? The current administration is awful in ways we couldn't have imagined. There's no sense in not talking about it.
I appreciate your restraint, and keeping this a high quality discussion space. As a political dissident myself, I don't mind some threads going political, I expect them to. The best ones are when there is a lot of disagreement or debate. As long as its not in every unrelated thread....
McCarthyism began in 1947, with Truman demanding goverment employees be "screened for loyalty". They wanted to remove anyone who was a member of an "organization" they didn't like. It began with hearings, and then blacklists, and then arrests and prison sentences. It lasted until 1959. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism)
This is the new McCarthyism. Do what the administration says, or you will be blacklisted, or worse.
The designation says any contractor, supplier, or partner doing business with the US military can’t conduct any commercial activity with Anthropic. Well, AWS has JWCC. Microsoft has Azure Government. Google has DoD contracts. If that language is enforced broadly, then Claude gets kicked off Bedrock, Vertex, and potentially Azure… which is where all the enterprise revenue lives. Claude cannot survive on $200/mo individual powerusers. The math just doesn’t math.
None of the hyper scalers are going to stop offering Claude. All of the big 3 have invested billions of dollars into Anthropic, and have tens (if not hundreds) of billions more tied up in funding deals with them. Amazon and Google are two of the largest shareholders of Anthropic.
Anthropic is going to be fine. The DoD is going to walk this back and pretend it never happened to save face.
It will really depend on the fine details. If Amazon would lose its military contracts unless it dropped Claude, then Claude will be gone tomorrow. They just got a half billion contract for the Air Force earlier this year, and it's not their only military contract, and they're going to want to be well positioned next time something like the JEDI contract comes along.
Also, AWS has a long history of rolling over when politicians make noise about AWS customers, going back to when Joe Lieberman casually asked Bezos to please stop supporting Wikileaks.
I don't think you understand. This supply chain risk designation is viral. Every Claude model provider now has to decide whether to (1) drop Anthropic models, or (2) drop every single government contract, every contract with government contractors, or any customer who has any customer to any degree of connection to a government contract [which is effectively everyone], or (3) go to jail.
GovCloud revenue is in the tens of billions of dollars. Bedrock less so. Almost every FedRAMP product uses the same codebase for Fed and non-Fed, and this would force most FedRAMP vendors to blackball Anthropic.
I would find that a lot more plausible if people had not spent the past week giving me similar arguments, in precisely the same tone, for why this was an empty threat and would never happen in the first place. If Amazon and Google do not either bow down or immediately join a business coalition to get Trump out of power, Hegseth will be even happier to get an opportunity to prove his power by destroying them. Trump either doesn't want to stop him or has become too senile to stop him.
" Effective immediately, no contractor, supplier, or partner that does business with the United States military may conduct any commercial activity with Anthropic."
> Contractors can still use Claude internally in their business, so long as it is not used in government work directly.
I work in the enterprise SaaS and cybersecurity industry. There is no way to guarantee that amongst any FedRAMP vendor (which is almost every cybersecurity and enterprise SaaS or on their roadmap).
Almost all FedRAMP products I've built, launched, sold, or funded were the same build as the commerical offering, but with siloed data and network access.
This means the entire security and enterprise SaaS industry will have to shift away from Anthropic unless the DPA is invoked and management is changed.
More likely, I think the DoD/DoW and their vendors will force Anthropic to retrain a sovereign model specifically for the US Gov.
Edit: Can't reply
> This is the core assertion that is not clear nor absolute.
If Walmart can forcibly add verbiage banning AWS from it's vendors and suppliers, the US government absolutely can. At least with Walmart they will accept a segmented environment using GCP+Azure+OCI. Retraining a foundational model to be Gov compliant is a project that would cost billions.
By declaring Anthropic a supply chain risk, it will now be contractually added by everyone becuase no GRC team will allow Anthropic anywhere in a company that even remotely touches FedRAMP and it will be forcibly added into contracts.
No one can guarantee that your codebase was not touched by Claude or a product using Claude in the background, so this will be added contractually.
From what I’ve heard the actual restriction is just on using Claude for stuff they’re doing for the Pentagon. They’ll keep using Claude for everything else and be less effective when they work for the government, and that’s fine because everyone else working for the government will have the same handicap.
This will likely go to court, again as Dario has stated this is blatant retaliation as no US company has ever been designated a supply chain risk and they continue to operate on classified systems for 6 more months.
Yea strong odds this goes to court, the DoD’s clearly inconsistent logic is ridiculed by a judge, the designation is dropped, and everyone quietly goes about their way with the DoD continuing to use Claude according to the existing terms of the contract.
There's going to be a TRO against the attempt by like 9 AM Monday, and the bad faith from the government couldn't be more obvious. All it's really going to do is cost them some extremely expensive lawyer time.
I am both dumb and without access to Claude, thus I must ask: My fellow smart HN'ers, what kind of impacts would this likely have on the economy?
Has a lot of money and resources not been pumped into Anthropic (albeit likely less than OpenAI)? I imagine such a decision would not be the ROI that many investors expected.
"Effective immediately, no contractor, supplier, or partner that does business with the United States military may conduct any commercial activity with Anthropic."
This is authoritarian behavior. You're having trouble negotiating a contract, so instead of just canceling it - you basically ban all of F500 from doing business with that firm.
This certainly isn't going to attract foreign investment. Business isn't big on governments that capriciously threaten to seize control of or financially harm them.
> The US is currently an autocracy/idiocracy. A staggeringly corrupt, busted nation.
We are in a bad place right now, that is for certain.
> Soon enough the midterms will be effectively cancelled.
That would be a pretty big leap from where we are. I think it is important to pay attention, and very important to vote, but there is not a particularly plausible route to cancelling any elections. But they can certainly make enough noise that a lot of people may become confused or scared to vote. So we need to remain laser focused on getting everybody to the polls. Like, this should be priority #1 for every citizen who wants to see democracy continue.
Anthropic dictating what our military can and can't do is also authoritarian behavior. The military is responsible to the US people, where Anthropic isn't. Giving power to a company instead of the people is wrong.
Is Anthropic required to sell to the government even if doesn't want to, and is willing to give up its government contracts rather than change its terms of use?
> Effective immediately, no contractor, supplier, or partner that does business with the United States military may conduct any commercial activity with Anthropic.
I’m sure the lawyers just got paged, but does this mean the hyperscalers (AWS, GCP) can’t resell Claude anymore to US companies that aren’t doing business with the DoD? That’s rough.
Probably yes. Additionally the (probably more for AWS) won't be allowed to use it internally either. This will probably apply to all the top SaaS/software companies unilaterally.
Additionally, every major university will undoubtedly have to terminate the use of Claude. First on the list will be universities that run labs under DOD contracts (e.g. MIT, Princeton, JHU), DOE contracts (Stanford, University of California, UChicago, Texas A&M, etc...), NSF facilities (UIUC, Arizona, CMU/Pitt, Purdue), NASA (Caltech).
Following that it will be just those who accept DOD/DOE/NSF grants.
Billable hours will win figuring it out but in theory, no because they can’t test it or use it.
Generally any machine that touches Supply chain Risk software cannot ship any software to DoD. AWS has separate clouds but software comes from same place.
AWS/GCP/Azure all do business with the DoD and at least AWS and Azure use Claude a decent amount internally. AWS’s Kiro tool (which is used internally instead of Claude Code) relies entirely on Claude models.
This is almost certainly going to be rolled back, because I guarantee the DoD isn’t going to stop doing business with the hyper scalers, and the hyper scalers aren’t going to stop doing business with Anthropic.
I don't think he got it backwards, at least if Hegseth's statement is accurate. AWS, GCP, etc. all do business with DoD. If they, as DoD contractors, are no longer allowed to do business with Anthropic, then presumably they have to stop re-selling or hosting Anthropic's models to anyone.
Agree with other reply. I don’t think it’s backward. No they said any commercial activity. Does not feel like a stretch that commercial activity includes reselling api usage.
I don't see how you get that reading. Anthropic is clearly allowed to sell Claude to companies not doing business with the US Military. If anything that's more likely to be non-US companies.
"They have threatened to remove us from their systems if we maintain these safeguards; they have also threatened to designate us a “supply chain risk”—a label reserved for US adversaries, never before applied to an American company—and to invoke the Defense Production Act to force the safeguards’ removal. These latter two threats are inherently contradictory: one labels us a security risk; the other labels Claude as essential to national security." from Dario's statement (https://www.anthropic.com/news/statement-department-of-war)
Supply chain risk ? Seems the risk here is the US Gov't wanting free reign to do whatever they want - - when they want.
Look no further than the famous expose by Mark Klein, the former AT&T technician and whistleblower who exposed the NSA's mass surveillance program in 2006, revealing the existence of "Room 641A" in San Francisco. He discovered that AT&T was using a "splitter" to copy and divert internet traffic to the NSA, proving the government was monitoring massive amounts of domestic communication.
If you read Anthropic statement carefully, they explicitly confirm they are already working with the U.S. government on a range of military and national security use cases, many including areas that clearly relate to real world lethal operations.
They are only refusing two narrow, but important categories. Framing this as blanket "refusal to support the DoD" feels like an angry, reactive own goal rather than a careful reading of what they actually said.
So far the march toward dictatorship keep being detoured by sheer incompetence. In any case, is hard to seize power when you can’t organize a group chat...
Yes. All companies that deal with the government have agreed to let the government do whatever it wants within the bounds of whatever it is those companies do.
It's scary to me that there are a significant voting-bloc out there who don't see this kind of zero-integrity (and self-serving) behavior as disqualifying in anyone wielding authority.
That's a shame. They might at least continue to work together to spy on foreigners. I don't understand the fuss anyway, what do claude models do that gpt and gemini can't?
As a foreigner, i see this as a great thing! I was about to cancel my Claude sub, but now i might hold on to it for a little and see how this plays out.
Trump wrote a long rant on Truth Social and ordered ALL federal agencies to stop using Anthropic. Not just the department of defense. This is straight up authoritarian.
Meanwhile, irrelevant "AI Czar" David Sacks, member of the PayPal mafia alongside known Epstein affiliates Elon Musk and Peter Thiel, is furiously retweeting all the posts from Trump, Hegseth, and other accounts. He is such a coward and anti American:
I don’t see a contradiction here. If control is out of the hands of decision makers, that’s a supply chain risk
. Were it not for that, the service is seen as critical to national security.
I dunno, safeguard seems like a weasel word here. It’s just reserving control to one party over another. It’s understandable why the DoD(W) wouldn’t like that.
That’s the crazy thing. This whole dispute was over Anthropic saying no to fully automated kill bots. They only required there be a human in the loop to press the button.
Anthropic didn't even say "no", it was more of a "not yet, let's work on this".
I really wonder what Palantir's role in all this is because domestic surveillance sounds exactly like Palantir and whatever happened during the Maduro raid led to Anthropic asking Palantir questions which the news reports is the snowball that escalated to this.
They also said no to fully automated AI domestic surveillance. I suppose non-US citizens like me are screwed but that's at least some small comfort for the natives. FVEY will just spy on each other and share but at least someone tried.
If we were able to give the Ukrainians fully automated kill bots, and those kill bots enabled Ukraine to swiftly expel the Russians from their territories, would that not be a good thing? Or would you rather the meat grinder continue to destroy Ukraine's young men to satisfy some moral purity threshold?
If we could give Taiwan killbots that would ensure China could never invade, or at least could never occupy Taiwan, would that be good or bad? I have a feeling I know what the Taiwanese would say.
While we're at it, should we also strip out all the machine learning/AI driven targeting systems from weapons? We might feel good about it, but I would bet my life savings that our future adversaries will not do the same.
'yet'. Their reason for not allowing autonomous weapons usage was it isn't ready, not that they wouldn't do it on principle. Only the surveillance objection was on principle.
Sleep well in a box under the overpass maybe. If Amazon can’t serve Anthropics model until the courts get everything figured out it will be too late for them.
As a Canadian looking in, I see people talking about a 36% approval as low.
How is it that high!?
That means that more than 1-in-3 of your countrymen are ride-or-die, and it's just heartbreaking to see that we're going to have to launch that many people into the sun.
To counter point, do you think AI companies located on our adversaries turf will take the same stand? I agree its nightmarish to think of AI surveillance. But why is that being lumped in with weaponry? I see these as two separate issues.
Anthropic isn't even taking a particular hard stance. Their mass surveillance prohibition only applies to domestic spying, so they're a-OK with spying adversaries. If all of the AI companies all over the world took the same stance, it wouldn't improve the life of Americans one bit.
The only other thing that the foreign AI companies could do is say no to automated killing bots, which doesn't even seem like that good of an idea considering that your countrymen will most likely have to interact with these robots that can kill without any oversight.
He's more polarizing than usual maybe with stronger approve/unapprove ratings but his net popularity is in line with most 2nd term presidents at this stage.
I’m just laughing at the possibility of it he US military being forced to use Chinese open source AI models because every US model provider refuses to work with them.
American people: latinamerican here. Maybe it's silly to root for a country in the world hegemony arena. I've usually been partial to the USA over China. Now I'm not rooting for your country anymore. As far as I'm concerned, I'd rather have China being the foremost power, at least they seem to be less keen on invading or heavily strong-arming latinamerica
American here, I would much rather have China being the foremost power too. This saga with Anthropic shows just how clueless these AI companies are. This soap opera has to stop, none of these CEO's, officials from the Trump administration, or the Department of War are good for humanity. I've read the ethics policies that China that they released on generative AI and it's years ahead of anything we have in America.
Most Americans hate AI and it's effectively the ostrich effect where they hope to outright ban it and ignore everything else. Meanwhile, all the evil people are running the show. While Anthropic continues to propagate Sinophobic messaging, DeepSeek and other companies have a much more muted tone.
The cynicism is earned. But "nobody is good for humanity" is where analysis stops.
What's actually happening is a jurisdictional split forming in real time. The US is pricing out companies that won't remove human oversight from weapons systems. That's not a soap opera —
it's a policy signal with long-term consequences for where frontier AI development lands geographically.
Europe isn't perfect. But it's the only major jurisdiction actively building the governance infrastructure to keep humans in the loop by law, not by goodwill. That matters when goodwill
runs out — which, as you note, it tends to do.
The people building that alternative aren't the CEOs in Washington. Worth knowing they exist.
Ukrainians and Russians are experimenting with FPV drones using AI for target acquisition and homing. Not yet economically viable because it is cheaper to give your FPV fiber spool instead of Nvidia Jetson to bypass jamming.
When we have first politician blown to bits by autonomous AI FPV there will be sheer panic of every politician in the world to put the genie back into the bottle. It will be too late at that point.
Autonomous loitering munitions with 'AI' (image classification CNNs) are already in service and have been used - most demonstrably by the IDF.
Even during the Nagorno-Karabakh war, Azeri loitering munitions were able to suppress Armenian air defenses by hitting them when they rolled out of of concealment. I believe that killchain requires a level of autonomous functionality.
Azerbaijan was buying a lot of weapons from Israel prior to Nagorno Karabach war, so it is very likely that you have been talking about same weapon system in both cases.
However Russians and Ukrainians are using AI recognition in recon drones, but not yet in FPV. There is strong suspicion that long range one way attack drones are using AI during terminal guidance, but I did not see it confirmed by either side.
As written this would be the end of Anthropic. AWS, Microsoft et al are all suppliers of the DoW and as written they must immediate stop doing business with Anthropic. Will be interesting to see how this unfolds.
Supply-chain risks means "the potential for adversaries to sabotage, subvert, or disrupt the integrity and delivery of defense systems, including software, hardware, and services, to degrade national security".
So now Anthropic is an adversary, because it does not want "fully autonomous weapons" or automated mass surveillance? Sure thing, DoD. Go use Grok or whatever, I'm sure that will go great.
This is why you can't gatekeep AI capabilities. It will eventually be taken from you by force.
Open-source everything. Papers, code, weights, financial records. Do all of your research in the open. Run a 100% transparent organization so that there's nothing to take from you. Level the playing field for good and bad actors alike, otherwise the bad actors will get their hands on it while everyone else is left behind.
Stop comparing AI capabilities to nuclear weapons. A nuke cannot protect against or reverse the damage of another nuke. AI capabilities are not like nukes. Diffuse it as much as possible. Give it to everyone and the good will prevail.
Build a world where millions of AGIs run on millions of gaming PCs, aligned with millions of different individuals. It is a necessary condition for humanity's survival.
This is why OpenClaw (and other claw frameworks) ar so interesting. I'm not saying the current implementation is great, mind. But it's a possible safe-er scenario, where the ecosystem is already occupied.
Decades of speculative science fiction, thought experiments, and discourse led to this. It’s gratifying to see that we’ve garnered enough concern, a major AI lab risking this to reign in the potential of runaway AI disasters. Hopefully we see other labs follow.
It's nice to see Anthropic sticking to their terms. I just have one question in all this. Why is Anthropic being singled out when it seems all the other big players are down to play with the DoD? Is this just a pissing match, or have the Anthropic models been proven the real winner for them?
It's same reason this administration recently tried to indict six Congresspersons for urging military members to resist "illegal orders." They want to demonize anyone who isn't blindly loyal to their side.
The discussion here underlines the reality that one can never make a “deal” with a powerful state, just as Lando Calrisian famously found out in Empire Strikes Back.
Dario is Lando, complaining “We had a deal!” Only to be told, “I’m altering the deal. Pray I don’t alter it any further.”
A drunkard, ex-fox news host, wants mass surveillance and automated killing, what could go wrong?
I wish I thought enough Americans had the spine required to stand up to this, and I know for a fact that a lot do... the solution is literally written into your constitution.
This sounds like a message to would-be founders: don't base your company in the US. The strongest markets to do business are the ones with the most freedom from government meddling. In the US, big government is happy to use its power to crush private enterprise that it doesn't like.
Note that previously this label has been applied (nearly?) exclusively to non-US companies. US companies that don't do business with the DoD are not affected, and non-US companies that do business with the DoD are affected.
It may not be obvious. But this is actually a good thing when we looking back in a few years. I always feel weird that executive branch can just destroy private enterprise with "Supply-chain Risk" / "Terrorist List" without Due Process.
That's a good thing right? In a capitalist society, you cannot just burn $300B without consequences. Not to mention it is not just anyone's money. It is Saudi's.
So they're essentially admitting they want to use Claude to mass surveil Americans and/or build autonomous weapons with no humans in the loop. Kind of nuts.
There is clearly a need to codify into all of these historical acts that they can't be invoked unless there is a declaration of war (or some other appropriate prerequisite).
This administration consistently exploits what were designed to be emergency powers because no such requirement exists. Leave no room for interpretation.
The current administration scoffs at laws. Nothing stopping them in that case from declaring war on Nauru and doing all the same. The solution is a sane, informed electorate, which is much more difficult in this age where a few disgustingly rich people have so much influence over news and media.
I imagine I'm not the only one to switch over to giving Claude my money today. I'm sure the "Other" comments for the cancellation were often as blunt as mine.
Q: "Is there anything we could do to change your mind?"
> "Effective immediately, no contractor, supplier, or partner that does business with the United States military may conduct any commercial activity with Anthropic."
Does this mean Azure & AWS will have to stop offering Claude as a model?
You would have to assume it will be immediately challenged and an injunction filed to suspend the order until it makes it to court.
AWS Bedrock has deployed Anthropic models under an interesting structure. It is fully hands off - the models are copied into the AWS infrastructure and don't use anything from Anthropic. I think if push came to shove, Anthropic could cut ties with Amazon and AWS could probably still keep serving the models it has with Anthropic forgoing revenue until this is resolved, while asserting they are not "conducting commercial activity" between each other.
I wonder, can't Amazon create a new legal entity to split AWS into "AWS-for-DoD" and "AWS-for-everyone-else"? So one can work with Anthropic and the other can't. Not sure how it works in the US.
Given that Anthropic is clearly risking their entire business just to stand up for what they believe is right, which appears to be what everyone here agrees with, is everyone who is supporting them here planning to also start using Anthropic and switch away from other vendors until they follow suit? Or are folks planning to just use whatever regardless?
Edit: I should perhaps clarify I'm more interested in paid users, rather than free. It's harder to tell if free users switching would help them or hurt them... curious if anyone has thoughts on that too.
Does Anthropic have standing to sue to Government for libel? I don’t think the Government is allowed to arbitrarily designate a company a supply chain risk without good cause.
Under normal circumstances this would end up in court, but when this administration ignores court orders it doesnt like Anthropic would effectively have no legal recourse.
I got downvoted for this in the other thread, but this is basically an attempt at bankrupting Anthropic. No US company has ever been designated a supply chain risk, and the foreign companies that are on that list are now doing 0 business in the US. Very large portion of the US economy relies on some contracts with the US government, Anthropic cannot survive this if this holds.
I don't think it will hold, in the end this is mafia behavior, but if it does, we are yet again in uncharted waters.
This was basically what Marc Andreessen said - allegedly he was told by some high-up government officials something like: they were going to pick winners and losers in the AI race, and it would be a bad idea to try to compete in that market. It seems like the election of Trump has only changed the criteria for being a winner.
It's fascinating to me that this decision was set for 5 pm ET on a friday, and I think it may be more responsible to set big deadlines like this for a time while the stock market is open. I imagine this will negatively impact confidence in the US economy at large, and stock markets will reflect that. But since the market is closed, we'll have to wait till Monday, with the tension/anticipation of a drop building. If the deadline had been set for say, midday thursday, the market would have responded immediately, but at least you wouldn't have the building anxiety over the weekend. Of course the result wasn't known ahead of time, and I imagine some people will argue that the weekend will give investors time to cool off instead of following their gut reaction. But personally I don't find those arguments very convincing.
Is there a reason that is done, beyond just tradition? I’m genuinely very curious whether there’s a positive, negative, or negligible impact on economic decision making
> Our position has never wavered and will never waver: the Department of War must have full, unrestricted access to Anthropic’s models for every LAWFUL purpose in defense of the Republic.
Kesha tried to hug Jerry Seinfeld vibes.
> Anthropic delivered a master class in arrogance and betrayal as well as a textbook case of how not to do business with the United States Government or the Pentagon.
Strange way of saying "this vendor doesn't meet our software requirements".
> they have attempted to strong-arm the United States military into submission
Err... You approached them?
> a cowardly act of corporate virtue-signaling that places Silicon Valley ideology above American lives.
It's an orthogonal point, but "Silicon Valley ideology" has made up a significant portion of the USA's GDP for the last however many years.
> Their true objective is unmistakable: to seize veto power over the operational decisions of the United States military. That is unacceptable.
Again... You approached them?
> I am directing the Department of War to designate Anthropic a Supply-Chain Risk to National Security.
Like most companies in the world I imagine. They just haven't been approached yet.
> to allow for a seamless transition to a better and more patriotic service.
Internally re-framing all the recent "EU moving away from American tech!" articles as "EU builds more patriotic services!"
> This decision is final.
Nothing says "final" like a Tweet. The most uncontroversial and binding mechanism of all communication.
Should military contractors put conditions on the use of their weapons?
Here's our tank, but you can't invade Iran with it?
We think your invasion of Venezuela is illegal, we're activating the kill switch on your jets.
That's a real dangerous proposition.
If the T&C is agreed to up front, why shouldn't they be able to? If their client or potential client doesn't like the T&C, they can find another vendor.
If the government thinks the terms of Anthropic are unacceptable, they can just stop using them, right?
But why would you then retaliate and ban other companies from making business with Anthropic if they want to be a defense contractor?
How do these requirements make Anthropic a supply chain risk that makes them unusable for use by other companies?
> If the government thinks the terms of Anthropic are unacceptable, they can just stop using them, right
That is what they are doing.
> why would you then [....] ban other companies from making business with Anthropic if they want to be a defense contractor
Because, if it shops with Anthropic code, the DoD becomes subject to the restrictions when they receive the contractor's product. Anthropic's limitation is on the use, not (just) on the product or distribution.
To stop using them requires making the suppliers still using them as well.
It's perfectly reasonable for the US government to end the contract if they no longer like the terms they agreed to (assuming the contract does in fact let them); it's not reasonable to destroy the counterparty to the contract in retaliation. The line "I am altering the deal; pray I don't alter it further" is literally spoken by Darth Vader, the most comic-book of comic-book villains.
This is nice rhetoric but ignores the fact that the elected officials are bought out by other billionaires. The US is an oligarchy in a republics clothing.
So Anthropic cannot make deals with the US government, because they are a supply-chain risk. They can also not make deals with European governments, because Anthropic is based in the US.
So it would make sense now for Anthropic to move outside the US, e.g. to Europe or Canada to at least be able to make deals with European governments.
In theory, this is why there should be competition in industry, because it removes the capability of a single large actor to be able to control the government's access to things.
Oddly, though, it seems like that should solve this problem as well. I'm not sure why the Department of Defense insists on Anthropic's models in particular; one would think one of the other players, at the very least least xAI, would be willing to step in and provide the capability Anthropic doesn't want to provide.
The whole thing is fascinating. In my heart of heart, in principle, I want models to be essentially unrestricted, but I still find it somewhat problematic that government thinks it can say: you will make adjust your product to match our exact expectations even if you don't sign an updated contract with us. Odd stuff. I know they are trotting out War powers, but.. well.. we are not at war ( at least not yet or at least not yet officially declared.. ).
Help me understand the line Anthropic is drawing in the sand?
Don't get me wrong i'm glad they are unwilling to do certain things...
but to me it also seems a little ironic that Anthropic literally is partnered with Palantir which already mass surveills the US. Claude was used in the operation in Venezuala.
Their line not to cross seems absurdly thin?
Or there is something mega scary thats already much worse they were asked to do which we dont know about I guess.
I don't understand the line as well. So its no to domestic surveillance, but all other countries are a fair game? How is this an ethical stand? What sort of mental gymnastics allow Anthropic to classify this as an ethical stance?
To me all of this reads like "we don't trust our models enough yet to not cause domestic havoc, all other is fine, and we don't trust our models enough yet to not vibe-kill people". Key word being "yet".
The whole reason this is happening is because Anthropic looked into how Claude was used in the Maduro op and found it to violate the negotiated terms of service.
Their hard lines are:
- no usage of AI to commit murder WITHOUT a human in the loop
It seems like some comments here are from merged threads AND front-dated?
Makes for very confusing reading when comments from "1 hour ago" are actually on preceding events from earlier, before TFA news (announcement of designation).
mods: Especially in sensitive and rapidly developing situations like this, please don't mess with timestamps of comments. It's effectively revisionism.
Its one thing to say "we cannot abide by these terms, so let's part ways", and its another entirely to respond this drastically. The Trump administration will look back on this decision as the most consequential in their efforts to win the 2026 midterms and Republican efforts in 2028. This is a $400B+ American company that has significant partial ownership from Amazon, Google, and other private equity sources; they just made serious enemies in SV, many of whom supported Trump in his 2024 election victory.
This is a pimple on the arse of said consequence. It's one tiny thing in a chain of many bigger things.
It's magnified because it's right now, but this won't affect midterm results barely a whisker compared to many other daily headlines.
There are no serious enemies to this administration in SV and I can't see this changing that. SV has bent the knee exactly like Anthropic didn't. They're not going to stand up because of this, they've proven they don't have those muscles.
OTOH it could amplify their base: “Big Tech refusing to work with us on National Security matters!” The base will never hear what/where the red line was drawn, just that Some Company in California (liberal/bad) is being Woke and Political.
I don't think it's ever been about strong or weak, or at least I don't think that's where the differentiation is. You always want 'strong' government, committed to the things it says it's committed to.
It's more been about the size of the government; that it should do a minimal amount of control (and do it well), but leave a lot of things for "the market to decide".
Having said all that, I think this issue is just tangential to any big/small government ideology. This is a hissy fit about a defence contractor sticking to their agreement where the DoD want to change the agreement in a way that goes against the contractors Mission Statement and/or the US Constitution itself.
The old ideology of the
Republicans doesn't mean anything here. This administration is purely about 'give me what I want, now!'.
And it's whims change with the breeze. Do not look for consistency here.
Once the democrats are in the oval office again can they label palantir a supply chain risk? Is there anything stopping the administations red or blue from shutting down any company that doens't agree 100% with them politically
USA is trying to use IA for something so evil that a for profit company is risking to loose a lot of money and even close. Nobody are allowed to know what these evil things are.
I can't seem to find what being designated a "Supply-Chain Risk to National Security" implies from a legal standpoint. From what I can find, it doesn't seem to be a formal legal status. Curious if anyone knows more.
Basically, if you are a federal contractor, the designation means the DoD can force you to certify that Anthropic tech is not used in the fulfillment of your government work. Because it's just a DoD designation, and an executive order and not added to the NDAA, you can still use Claude for non-government (federal) touching work.
So using Claude Code to write software for the DoD is now a no go, you'd be in breach of procurement directives now.
If they go as far as to convince congress to add Anthropic to the NDAA, that would be a nationwide ban like Huawei making it illegal for any federal contractor to use the tech anywhere in their business.
But for now, even fed contractors can still use Claude in their business, just not directly for government work.
That doesn’t seem to match up with the original tweet though - it sounds a heck of a lot stronger:
> Effective immediately, no contractor, supplier, or partner that does business with the United States military may conduct any commercial activity with Anthropic
Emphasis mine.
And I’m looking at news organizations that presumably have staffs of legal analysts pouring over this stuff, and they also seem to be saying that it can’t be any commercial activity:
> The label means that no contractor or supplier that works with the military can do business with Anthropic.
Working with the government is typically a huge pain in the ass unless you have a lot of friends on the inside. It's not hard to do the math when you you dealing with a government whose acting incredibly oppositional.
I had the co-founder of Levels and current head of the US Treasury Sam Corcos reach out to me a few weeks ago for a job. I was initially kind of excited because I had really wanted to work for the Treasury a couple years ago, so I took the phone call with him.
He called me and he seemed like a nice enough guy, but I realized that he's one of the DOGE/Elon acolytes and he started talking about how he's "fixing" the Treasury and that every engineer is apparently supposed to use Claude for everything.
It would have been a considerable pay downgrade which wouldn't necessarily be a dealbreaker but being managed by DOGE would be, but mostly relevant is that I found it kind of horrifying that we're basically trusting the entire world's bank to be "fixed" with Claude Code. It's one thing when your ad platform or something is broken, but if Claude fucks something up in the Treasury that could literally start a war. We're going to "fix" all the code with a bunch of mediocre code that literally no one on earth actually understands and that realistically no one is auditing [1].
If they're going to "fix" all the Treasury code with stuff generated by Claude, I'm not sure they will have a choice but to stick with it, because very it seems very likely to me that it will be incomprehensible to anything but Claude.
[1] Be honest, a lot of AI generated code is not actually being reviewed by humans; I suspect that a lot of the AI code that's being merged is still basically being rubber-stamped.
There's an awful lot of momentum with the USD being the world currency. Even if it eventually declines I think it might take decades, if the British pound is anything to go by.
So I'm very curious, assuming this happens and is later found to be an illegal order - will Anthropic have rights to redress (ie: monetary compensation)?
You would have to believe that an AI model would be 100% correct in its decision to discern an enemy from a civilian. So an intelligent lunatic, or an uninformed lunatic politician
Don't worry, they will be seized by the government soon. Sounds crazy right. Not that far from the headline though, that would sound insane a mere 18 months ago.
The US is such a shit show. Personally I hope this doesn't affect Anthropic's growth and development because I quite enjoy using their products and see them evolve.
it's funny that this is being framed as big tech vs us government, when in reality this move is probably strongly influenced by the desire to help openai and other big tech against anthropic
> Anthropic’s stance is fundamentally incompatible with American principles.
I don't think that Secretary Hegseth is qualified to speak on American principles.
Cheating on multiple spouses[1], being an active alcoholic, and being accused of multiple sexual assaults and paying off the accusers[3] is fundamentally incompatible with being a Secretary of Defense and a good leader.
Also, this violates freedom of speech and will probably get shot down in the courts.
Already there 'February 23, 2026: The Pentagon confirmed a new agreement allowing Grok use in classified systems. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth announced it would go live soon on unclassified and classified networks, alongside other models, as part of feeding military data into AI.'
This will mean Grok becomes the defacto US Gov AI provider.
Why are so many adopting this name for what is by law, by the American people, called the Department of Defense? The name change pertains directly to the Anthropic issue, which is the function of the government and department, the power of the American people to govern themselves, and the role of the president relative to the soveriegn American people.
Well put and it bothers me too. It seems to be another case of Orwellian manipulation, i.e. an expression of power through language, functioning as a litmus test of the speaker's loyalty. Serious publications are not going along with it. More craven or (here) thoughtless ones are falling in line.
I mean the original name switch was much more "Orwellian manipulation" if anything changing it back to war is undoing the bullshit implications that everything it does is defense.
No, stop, I understand the politics here, but I’m asking about the technical fundamentals.
LLMs produce output of unknowable and unpredictable accuracy, and as far as we know, this is a mathematically unsolvable problem. This shit should not be within 1000 miles of a weapons system. Why are we even talking about this?
> 2. No fully autonomous weapons (kill decisions without a human in the loop)
Surveillance takes place with or without Anthropic, so depriving DoW of Anthropic models doesn't accomplish much (although it does annoy Hegseth).
The models currently used in kill decisions are probably primitive image recognition (using neural nets). Consider a drone circling an area distinguishing civilians from soldiers (by looking for presence of rifles/rpgs).
New AI models can improve identification, thus reducing false positives and increasing the number of actual adversaries targeted. Even though it sounds bad, it could have good outcomes.
But compared to what - if Anthropic's models aren't perfect but still better than existing (old school) models, it's understandable DoW still wants to use them (since they're potentially the best available, despite imperfections). I think Hegseth is saying to Anthropic: "that's our call, not yours".
> You sound like an unhinged person if you in plain words describe what’s happening, but the Trump admin demanded Anthropic’s AI be able to kill things for it without human approval and also do mass surveillance.
> Anthropic said no, and now the admin is trying to destroy the company in retaliation.
This is the inflection point for the beginning of culling of the intellectual class. If not physically, atleast economically and socially.
A few arrests and a few in detention centres, will be enough to make them fold and grovel.
They are now categorised as "radical left" and woke.
The elections will be controlled to "prevent the radical left take over of the greatest country on the planet".
edit : The stage is also being set for total media control. My prediction is that the next target will be Google, specifically Youtube. You should start seeing talks about how the radical left is inflitrated youtube.
Batshit situation, respectable position from Dario throughout.
But there's some irony in this happening to Anthropic after all the constant hawkish fearmongering about the evil Chinese (and open source AI sentiment too).
This is only the first year of this fascist government, and I believe the first powerful company that is taking a stance? Meta, Apple, etc. have all bent the knee right?
Good. At least now I don't have to worry that my vibe-coded, unreviewed checkout button is accidentally going to hallucinate the command that blows up a kindergarten in Yemen.
>Effective immediately, no contractor, supplier, or partner that does business with the United States military may conduct any commercial activity with Anthropic.
Nevermind Claude, does that mean Anthropic's offices can't use a power company if that same company happens to supply electricity to a US military base? What about the water, garbage disposal, janitorial services? Fedex? Credit card payments? Insurance companies? Law firms? All the normal boring stuff Anthropic needs that any other business needs.
This is a corporate death penalty. Or corporate internal exile or something, I don't know of a good analogy.
OpenAI came out just last night or today claiming they would hold the same line as Anthropic. Makes me think both sides knew Elon had already won the contract.
Department of War is a teenage boy's idea of "manly" and "cool". Same with X. These juvenile idiocrats will be laughed at by children in the future studying history. "Seriously? How dumb were these people in the 21st century."
Bluster followed by a "we can't do it now but we will... soon". Whoever has the best model can do what they please you'll see. I work with these things daily as an engineer (been doing this shit for 25 years and wow it's like mana from heaven these days). Believe me no one is going to screw with themselves by not using the best one and right now Anthropic has it.
I think odds are high a lot of these posts are by staffers. The posting volume is bananas, even granting that he spends a lot more time personally online and watching cable news et c. than any prior president, I don’t think there’s any way they’re all by him.
I do think a lot of the more hot-take type posts (often in response to stuff he’s watching on tv) are either actually him, or he’s dictating to an aide. These larger policy-type ones that he treats as quasi-executive-orders, I think are likely drafted by one or more of his cabinet-level folks, or others roughly as high up. That’s just my speculation based on reading the “tea leaves”, though.
As for official word, it waffles between “all of it’s him” and “oh not that one though, that racist video repost was a staffer who made a mistake”, so that’s little help in sussing out the truth (but I am rather certain they’re not all directly written and posted by him)
Presumably Trump will be returning his $90 million in lawsuit booty now that it's been decided you cannot say no to the government right? Heck he dodged the draft 5 times.
I don't know if we should be terrified by Hegseth's response, or relieved that the government doesn't just shrug and lie over privately agreed upon terms.
I think an important point to consider is that the administration's demands for domestic deployment and automation of homicide are not so much due to a lack of technical ability or personnel resources to achieve sought-for military-strategic outcomes, but an unwillingness for anyone in the administration to take on the responsibility for those decisions.
If an employee of the government makes a decision that subsequently turns out to be very very unpopular, that unpopularity is sooner or later going to coalesce and land on them, and the more unpopular it turns out to be the less of a shield legal arguments about immunity or pardons will be because so many people are increasingly out of patience with a system they deem to be corrupt. Being able to offload the political, legal, and personal risks of extremely consequential decisions onto The Bad Computer System is the political equivalent of crack cocaine - you might know that the feeling of freedom and power it provides is wholly illusory, you might know that it's likely to ruin your own and many other lives, you might know that it's a disaster for the health of the body politic...but it also offers the possibility that you can have an absolute blast and get away with it.
My anecdotal experience of being around wealthy and powerful people over the years inclines me to think that not only do our social systems select in favor of people who take big risks for big rewards, but that virtually everyone in that class has a) done a lot of getting away with things legally speaking and b) enjoys using illegal drugs. Even if they've given up recreational drug taking or limit it to strictly defined times and places so as not to interfere with their business/personal success, they like thrills and have confidence about their ability to enjoy them without negative consequences. You need some of that risk-taking, high personal autonomy attitude if you aspire to be a mover and shaker as opposed to a leading figure in risk management or regulatory compliance.
Everyone enjoys the feeling of power without responsibility; it's a fundamental underpinning of games and many other kinds of recreation. Add in significant amounts of money and people think differently about risk, as in the topical case of the experienced Supreme Court litigator who turned out to have have a secret life as a high-stakes poker gambler and eventually started betting against the IRS while filing his taxes (https://www.politico.com/news/2026/02/25/supreme-court-litig...).
Now, if you're in the political-military sphere and you get your thrills by literally redrawing lines and relationships on the map of the world and deciding what the news on TV is going to be for the next day/week/month/year, and you get offered a tool that promises to give a significant edge over other players in this game but which also gives you a versatile and widely accepted excuse for avoiding consequences for the inevitable losing hands, there are massively compelling psychological incentives for using it. And correspondingly, there's going to be massive emotional disruption (and bad decision-making and behavior) if your supply is threatened. You might start labeling the people who are interfering with your good time as cognito-terrorists and telling all your friends and supporters that your formerly trustworthy supplier did you dirty...
I can't wait to read the transcript of the AUSA in front of a federal judge trying to explain threatening to declare a company a supply chain risk if the company doesn't supply things to the government.
I'd at least, you know, pretend we had a top-secret amazing model. By airing all of this publicly, they've basically admitted that Claude is the best there is.
While I still think the GPT models are superior, I am very inclined to keep my Claude subscription because of this news. Even if Claude provides me with the occasional response out of left-field, I find that easier to live with than a world Anthropic is fighting to avoid.
This is going to have two unintended consequences.
One, it’s going to fuck with the AI fundraising market. That includes for IPO. If Trump can do this to Anthropic, a Dem President will do it to xAI. We have no idea where the contagion stops.
Two, Anthropic will win in the long run. In corporate America. Overseas. And with consumers. And, I suspect, with investors.
A lot of corporate America contracts for the military in some capacity (it's a giant piggy bank and if you jump through a few hoops you get to siphon money out of it, so of course they do) and assuming this Tweet is accurate (Jesus, what a world) this will also affect them.
IDK maybe they have corporate structures that avoid letting this kind of thing mess too badly with the parts of their company that don't have contact with the government, or maybe it'll only apply to specifically the work they do for the government, but otherwise I expect it'll be devastating for Anthropic's B2B effort.
> If Trump can do this to Anthropic, a Dem President will do it to xAI. We have no idea where the contagion stops.
Will the next Democratic President do it to xAI? On what grounds?
The Biden admin negotiated a contract with a supplier with terms which are – to the best of my knowledge – rather unprecedented – do Pentagon contracts normally have terms like this, restricting the government's use of the supplied good or service? Do missile or plane contracts with Boeing or Lockheed Martin contain restrictions on what kind of operations that hardware will be used in? I don't think that's the norm. So the next administration tears up a contract made by the previous admin with unusual terms – nothing unexpected about that. The "hardball" of declaring them a "supply chain risk" is escalating this dispute to a never-before-seen level, but the underlying action of cancelling the contract isn't. I honestly suspect the "supply chain risk" aspect will be suspended by the courts, and/or heavily watered down in the implementation; but the act of cancelling the contract in itself seems legally airtight.
Next Democratic administration inherits a contract with xAI (and quite possibly OpenAI and/or Google too) – with presumably standard terms. I can totally understand the political desire for vengeance. But what's the actual legal justification for it? Facially, the current administration has a politically neutral justification for what they are doing, even if some suspect there is some deeper political motivation. Will the next Democratic administration have such a facial justification for doing the same to xAI?
Plus, Democrats always sell themselves on "we obey norms". They have the structural disadvantage that either they keep their word on that, and can't do the same things back, or they break their word, and risk losing the people who supported them based on that word.
> Will the next Democratic President do it to xAI? On what grounds?
Elon being affiliated with Trump. About the strength of logic that makes Dario woke.
> don't think that's the norm
Norms are different from law or contract. And yes, lots of service providers limit where their civilians can be deployed and under what circumstances.
> can totally understand the political desire for vengeance. But what's the actual legal justification for it?
President has core Constitutional control of the military.
> Democrats always sell themselves on "we obey norms"
That hasn't worked. The American electorate is looking for change. And up-and-coming Democrats are picking up on that.
> risk losing the people who supported them based on that word
The Democrat base absolutely wants vengeance. It doesn't play in swing states. But it probably also doesn't hurt. These are court politics, at the end of the day.
How 'bout that government meddling in the free market, eh?
Every conservative needs to do some very deep, very serious soul-searching. As for me, as a hyper-progressive, I'm drawing up proposals for nationalizing real estate developers in order to force them to build new houses to sell below cost.
A level up, this is only the beginning of the political headwinds for AI. There will be a lot more, especially if constituencies begin to get displaced. I don’t think “job loss” will really occur, at least not in a dramatic way overnight. But I do believe there will be both aggressive regulation and very aggressive taxation of this technology in the near/mid-term.
We can actually get a glimpse of how AI might wipe out humanity here.
Model collapse making models identify everyone as a potential threat who needs to be eliminated.
Companies should have a right to refuse such requests on moral grounds though.
This stance is vindictive. Just don't use Claude in the military. Extending it to all government agencies is not right. They do great work. Can't deny that.
And here’s the irony: Musk, who claimed only he is virtuous enough to defend us from AI, who insisted he always wanted model labs to be non profit and research focused, will now bring his for profit commercial entity into service to aid in mass domestic censorship and fully autonomous weapons of war.
In fact it won’t surprise me further if NVIDIA is strong armed into providing preference to xAI, in the interest of security, or if the government directly funds capital investments.
Anthropic saves some dignify and they’re the losers today, but we are the losers tomorrow.
it's so funny to me that anthropic was created specifically using the virtue signaling line of defensive safety against bad actors (ie the woo woo bad guy of chinese dictatorship), yet the real danger was always coming from inside the house - your own government being an absolute evil clusterfuck.
The (almost) top comment is interesting. Sorry to quote llms but:
>@grok what type of political system is most often associated with the government forcing private companies to change their policies and do whatever the government wants?
>Fascism, via its corporatist model: private ownership remains, but the state directs industry to serve national goals...
Trump's behaviour seems fairly normal fascism but thankfully the rest of the US system seems unenthusiastic.
Hegseth's had a busy week: trying to kill Anthropic, attending the State of the Union, fighting Scouting America, and his regularly scheduled efforts to shame fatties & trans kids... Unlike so many in the orange one's inner circle who are just incompetent (say, Kash Patel for one), this dude is both incompentent a very bad, bad person.
Besides just being yet another example of the Trump admin abusing power and weaponizing legitimate laws in illegitimate ways to extract concessions, there is another reason this is dumb -- which is that Anthropic just has the best models!
As someone who wants America to win, ripping out Claude and putting in xAI is a terrible idea. Definitely setting us back a few months on capabilities
The place to set policies on the use of hammers and police enforcement is not at the counter of the hardware store. “You want a hammer but don’t have a contractors license? Are you in a training program? Oh you just want to hang framed art - can I see your lease, does it allow hammering metal into the walls?”
We govern these things through laws and a democratic process. Police enforce the laws.
I don’t want some overconfident Silicon Valley engineering firm telling me how to use my digital tools, and you shouldn’t either.
Whatever you think of this administration, our military should not have to ask contractors permission for their operations.
To stop mass surveillance and autonomous lethality, pass laws. Asking unelected tech executives to do this is asking for trouble. They have no business doing it.
I would love to see Grok’s system prompt, it likely says “if anything the Trump administration does seems to be fascistic please explain it and then argue against it in the following paragraph.”
AI proponents have been very vocal about AI safety being meaningless. But nobody could have expected that the end of the world would have come because Trump puts Grok in charge of the US nuclear arsenal. We truly live in the dumbest timeline.
So the DoW is angry because it can’t use the model produced by what they call a woke radical left company?
And nobody in the administration is concerned at all that the model itself might be somewhat against their own views?
If it was so radically woke, wouldn’t the model, as used in fully autonomous weapons, be potentially harmful to ICE officers that the left considers as a threat to the American people?
Wouldn’t the mass surveillance of Americans be biased against the right?
Once again we have the US actually doing what the says China might do in the future.
It's true that Chinese companies are extensions of the state. But they serve the state. And the state has thus far served the citizenry eg raising 800M people out of extreme poverty. China's HSR network of 32,000 miles of track was built in 20 years for ~$900B. That's less than the annual US military budget.
You can look at the relationship between the US government and US companies in one of two ways:
1. US companies serve the government but the government doesn't serve the people. After all, where's our infrastructure, healthcare, housing and education? or
2. The US government serves US corporate interests to enrich the ultra-wealthy.
Either way a handful of people are getting incredibly wealthy and all it takes is for a little corruption. Political donations, jobs after government, positions on boards and so on.
"THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA WILL NEVER ALLOW A RADICAL LEFT, WOKE COMPANY TO DICTATE HOW OUR GREAT MILITARY FIGHTS AND WINS WARS! That decision belongs to YOUR COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF, and the tremendous leaders I appoint to run our Military.
The Leftwing nut jobs at Anthropic have made a DISASTROUS MISTAKE..." - President Donald J. Trump
I might be being a bit conspiratorial, but is anyone else not buying this whole song and dance, from either side? Anthropic keeps talking about their safeguards or whatever, but seeing their marketing tactics historically it just reads more like trying to posture and get good PR for "fighting the system" or whatever.
"Our AI is so advanced and dangerous Trump has to beg us to remove our safeguards, and we valiantly said no! Oh but we were already spying on people and letting them use our AIs in weapons as long as a human was there to tick a checkbox"
I just don't buy anything spewing out of the mouths of these sociopathic billionaires, and I trust the current ponzi schemers in the US gov't even less.
Especially given how much astroturfing Anthropic loves doing, and the countless comments in this thread saying things like "Way to go Amodei, I'm subbing to your 200 dollar a month plan now forever!!11".
One thing I know for sure is that these AI degenerates have made me a lot more paranoid of anything I read online.
Kudos to anthropic for standing up for their principles. Let's remember all the silicon valley leaders who embraced fascism without even needing to be pressured. We need more billionaires with backbones.
No surprise here. All government actions are now in the Trump mafia boss style.
“You won’t let us use your product unrestricted for military applications? Fuck you, we’re going to stop using it for anything at all across the entire federal government, even if not remotely related to military.”
Defense contracting makes you rich and lazy. In the long run it is rare to see companies get sucked into defense contracting and stay relevant/on the cutting edge. We look at fighters and warships and think WOW! But the reality is that they are pretty far behind where they would actually be if there was a civilian purpose to them that mattered.
Unfortunately their models suck, though. The difference between the best Grok model and Opus 4.6 is night and day, and not only for coding, but entirely across-the-board.
I don’t know what will happen, but it still could work out to benefit Anthropic. I believe the public sentiment is OVERWHELMINGLY with Anthropic on this one. Both their stance and standing up to Trump bullies.
Appealing to the pragmatic and the "game theory" of complying with authoritarian rule that you don't have power over - because the other party that you don't have any power over will benefit from it - is a zero-sum argument.
Procurement decisions are not authoritarian rule. A government agency deciding that a vendor doesn't meet its operational requirements and setting a timeline to transition off that vendor is one of the most ordinary functions of institutional management. Every organization, public or private, does this. Authoritarian rule involves the coercive suppression of rights or autonomy. Choosing not to renew a contract with a provider who has voluntarily excluded itself from your use case is the opposite of coercion; it's respecting that provider's choice and acting accordingly.
The "zero-sum" label is equally off-base. Zero-sum describes a situation where one party's gain is necessarily another's loss, and that is precisely the nature of military capability competition. If an adversary fields unrestricted AI systems and you field restricted ones, the gap is real and the consequences are asymmetric. You don't have to like that reality, but calling it a zero-sum argument as though it's a rhetorical trick misidentifies what's actually a structural condition. The term you seem to be reaching for is something closer to "fear-based reasoning" or "false dilemma," but neither of those applies cleanly here either, because the competitive dynamic being described is well-documented and not hypothetical.
If there's a genuine objection to be made, and there may well be, it has to engage with the specifics: whether the restrictions in question actually matter operationally, whether the transition plan is proportionate, whether the policy creates worse risks than it solves. That's where the real debate is.
As best I can tell, his hard-drinking era ended many years before he entered the cabinet. But this does feel like a pretty impulsive decision, and there's some ambiguity over whether this statement was approved by the WH, or whether this was just the SECDEF taking it to the next level to look super loyal and badass. This ambiguity gives the WH room to walk it back in the coming weeks, depending on how things evolve.
I can honestly understand both positions. The U.S. military must be able to use technology as it sees fit; it cannot allow private companies to control the use of military equipment. Anthropic must prevent a future where AIs make autonomous life and death decisions without humans in the loop. Living in that future is completely untenable.
What I don’t understand is why the two parties couldn’t reach agreement. Surely autonomous murderous robots is something U.S. government has interest in preventing.
> it cannot allow private companies to control the use of military equipment.
The big difference here is that Claude is not military equipment. It's a public, general purpose model. The terms of use/service were part of the contract with the DoD. The DoD is trying to forcibly alter the deal, and Anthropic is 100% in the clear to say "no, a contract is a contract, suck it up buttercup."
We aren't talking about Lockheed here making an F-35 and then telling the DoD "oh, but you can't use our very obvious weapon to kill people."
> Surely autonomous murderous robots is something U.S. government has interest in preventing
After this fiasco, obviously not. It's quite clear the DoD most definitely wants autonomous murder robots, and also wants mass domestic surveillance.
Because the current government wants unquestioning obedience, not a discussion (assuming they were capable of that level of nuanced thought in the first place). The position of this government is "just do what I say or I will hit you with the first stick that comes to hand".
If the government doesn't want to sign a deal on Anthropic's terms, they can just not sign the deal. Abusing their powers to try to kill Anthropic's ability to do business with other companies is 10000% bullshit.
> What I don’t understand is why the two parties couldn’t reach agreement. Surely autonomous murderous robots is something U.S. government has interest in preventing.
Consider the government. It’s Hegseth making this decision, and he considers the US military’s adherence to law to be a risk to his plans.
I can see both sides as pertains to Trump's initial decision to stop working with Claude, but now, this over-the-top "supply chain risk" designation from Hegseth is something else. It's hard to square it with any real principle that I've seen the admin articulate.
> What I don’t understand is why the two parties couldn’t reach agreement.
Someday we'll have to elect a POTUS who is known for his negotiation and dealmaking skills.
I am fine with this. If you are a defense contractor, you are a defense contractor, and you follow the military needs that you government believes are necessary - or you stop being a defense contractor.
I wouldn't want a bullet manufacturer to hold back on my government based on their own internal sense of ethics (whether I agreed with it or not, it's not their place)
You're fine with a company being designated a supply chain risk, a designation heretofore used exclusively for foreign adversaries and usually a death knell for most companies, because the government wants to break a negotiated terms of service and contract that they already accepted?
Everyone is getting wrapped around the axel here but this is about the big picture, not the specifics. A private company should not have the ability to dictate how its technology is used by the government. If they can’t agree to that, then don’t sell your technology to the government. Personally, I don’t want to be spied on by the government with it (I don’t think their tech does that) but I also don’t want Anthropic having operational control over a mission.
That's exactly what is happening... Anthropic are choosing not to sell their technology to the government. I'm not sure what you're suggesting otherwise here.
The disconnect here for me is, I assume the DoW and Anthropic signed a contract at some point and that contract most likely stipulated that these are the things they can do and these are the things they can't do.
I would assume the original terms the DoW is now railing against were in those original contracts that they signed. In that case it looks like the DoW is acting in bad faith here, they signed the original contact and agreed to those terms, then they went back and said no, you need to remove those safeguards to which Anthropic is (rightly so) saying no.
Am I missing something here?
EDIT: Re-reading Dario's post[1] from this morning I'm not missing anything. Those use cases were never part of the original contacts:
> Two such use cases have never been included in our contracts with the Department of War
So yeah this seems pretty cut and dry. Dow signed a contract with Anthropic and agreed to those terms. Then they decided to go back and renege on those original terms to which Anthropic said no. Then they promptly threw a temper tantrum on social media and designated them as a supply chain risk as retaliation.
My final opinion on this is Dario and Anthropic is in the right and the DoW is acting in bad faith by trying to alter the terms of their original contracts. And this doesn't even take into consideration the moral and ethical implications.
[1]: https://www.anthropic.com/news/statement-department-of-war
The administration's approach to contracts, agreements, treaties and so on could be summed up as 'I am altering the deal. Pray I do not alter it further.'
The basic problem in our polity is that we've collectively transferred the guilty pleasure of aligning a charismatic villain in fiction to doing the same in real life. The top echelons of our government are occupied by celebrities and influencers whose expertise is in performance rather than policy. For years now they've leaned into the aesthetics of being bad guys, performative cruelty, committing fictional atrocities, and so forth. Some MAGA influencers have even adopted the Imperial iconography from Star Wars as a means of differentiating themselves from liberal/democratic adoption of the 'rebel' iconography. So you have have influencers like conservative entrepreneur Alex Muse who styles his online presence as an Imperial stormtrooper. As Poe's law observes, at some point the ironic/sarcastic frame becomes obsolete and you get political proxies and members of the administration arguing for actual infringements of civil liberties, war crimes, violations of the Constitution and so on.
I think it's the other way around. They have always wanted to do those cruel things that have real victims. It took them many years of dedicated, coordinated efforts as they slowly inched many systems to align with their insane ideas. The villain branding is just that - branding. Many of them actually like the 'bad guys' in those stories, especially if those bad guys are portrayed as strong, uncompromising, militaristic, inhumane, and having simple, memorable iconography that instills fear - the more allusions to real life fascists, the better. But that enjoyment follows from their ideology and what they want to do in the world, not the other way around.
And as an aside to this: even the people coopting the rebel iconography are supporting genocide, atrocities and war crimes.
Like, Mark Hamill himself is a massive Israel + Biden supporter [0].
Guys, George Lucas didn't make the Empire thinking about Trump, or Republicans. He made it about America.
0 - https://www.nme.com/news/film/hollywood-stars-sign-open-lett...
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The writeup here[1] was pretty clear to me.
> *Isn’t it unreasonable for Anthropic to suddenly set terms in their contract?* The terms were in the original contract, which the Pentagon agreed to. It’s the Pentagon who’s trying to break the original contract and unilaterally change the terms, not Anthropic.
> *Doesn’t the Pentagon have a right to sign or not sign any contract they choose?* Yes. Anthropic is the one saying that the Pentagon shouldn’t work with them if it doesn’t want to. The Pentagon is the one trying to force Anthropic to sign the new contract.
[1]: https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/the-pentagon-threatens-anth...
I just wish there was a stronger source on this. I am inclined to agree you and the source you cited, but unfortunately
> [1] This story requires some reading between the lines - the exact text of the contract isn’t available - but something like it is suggested by the way both sides have been presenting the negotiations.
I deal with far too many people who won't believe me without 10 bullet-proof sources but get very angry with me if I won't take their word without a source :(
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It isn't about commercial agreements, it's about patriotism. The national industry is supposed to submit to the military's wishes to the extent that they get compensated. Here it's a question or virtue.
The Pentagon feels it isn't Anthropic to set boundaries as to how their tech is used (for defense) since it can't force its will, then it bans doing business with them.
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Regardless of the original contract, it's entirely appropriate for a vendor to tell the customer how to use any materials.
Imagine a _leaded_ pipe supplier not being allowed to tell the department of war they shouldn't use leaded pipes for drinking water! It's the job of the vendor to tell the customer appropriate usage.
This is quite literally the norm for things with known dangerous use cases.
Go look at the package on a kitchen knife and it says not to be used as a weapon
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They also have other vendors.
Claude Opus is just remarkably good at analysis IMO, much better than any competitor I’ve tried. It was remarkably good and complete at helping me with some health issues I’ve had in the past few months. If you were to turn that kind of analytical power in a way to observe the behaviour of American citizens and to change it perhaps, to make them vote a certain way. Or something like - finding terrorists, finding patterns that help you identify undocumented people.
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Yep. Choosing not to renew a contract with a provider who has voluntarily excluded itself from your use case is respecting that provider's choice and acting accordingly.
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Not in software though. Clear precedent has been established via EULAs. Software companies set the rules and if users don't like, they can piss off. I don't see why it would be any different for the government.
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> Regardless of the original contract, it's entirely appropriate for a vendor to tell the customer how to use any materials.
Utter nonsense. When the US built the Blackbird, it could only use titanium because of the heat involved in traveling at that speed. But they didn't have enough titanium in the US. So the the US created front companies to purchase titanium from the Soviet Union.
Do you think the US should have informed the Soviet Union what it wanted to do with the metal?
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I don't believe they can change the name to Department of War without an actor Congress. It remains the DoD.
Yes, it's officially still the Department of Defense.
If this were a news outline writing "Department of War" I would be concerned. But in the case of the Anthropic CEO's blog post, I can understand why they are picking their fights.
I first read about DoW on a post by Anthropic and thought it was some kind of jab to the government.
Well I think we have an actor congress
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It's a silly shibboleth, but I automatically ignore anyone who calls it the Department of War or Gulf of America. Hasn't steered me wrong yet. They're telling me they're the kind of people who only care about defending fascism.
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They can, however, rename their Twitter/X accounts and vacate the @SecDef handle, which seems to be up for grabs now, if anyone wants to do the funniest thing...
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Or all the stupid shit this regime has done, this is the most sane.
They want the department to fight wars. At least they’re being honest.
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Of all the silly things that Trump did, I think this one is the most reasonable. This has always been a department of war. Calling it defense was propaganda.
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the entire administration negotiates in bad faith. literally every agreement they sign whether it's international trade or corporate contracts is up to the whim of a toddler with twitter
You pretty much nailed it. I can't even get outraged at any given instance now that the trendline is so staggeringly clear.
I can't see anyway this ends well for the US. I say this as both an American and a military veteran.
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And they don’t think anything through. If they do this then Amazon, Google and the rest will need to terminate their involvement with Anthropic. Trump will be getting a call from some Wall Street bigwigs imminently and it’ll get rolled back, I bet.
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Contract law will certainly be a casualty once Rule of Law has completely been broken. I don’t understand why the business sector isn’t pushing back more. Surely they must all know that the legal legal context itself, within which they all operate, is at mortal risk and that Business as Usual will vanish once autocratic capture is complete.
They still think they can bribe their way out
My main takeaway from all of this is that Hegseth seems deeply unfit for his job. First there was the Signal leak and now this.
Look, Anthropic is not going to be designated a supply chain risk. 80% of the Fortune 500 have contracts with them. Probably a similar percentage of defense contractors. Amazon is a defense contractor for example. They'd have to remove Claude from their AWS offerings. Everyone running Claude on AWS, boom gone. The level of disruption to the US economy would be off the charts, and for what? Why? Because Hegseth had a bad day? Because he's a sore loser?
If he's decided he doesn't like the DoW's contract then he can cancel it, fine. To try and exact revenge on the best American frontier model along with 80% of the Fortune 500 in the process, to go out of his way to harm hundreds or perhaps thousands of American firms, defies all reason. This is behavior you would expect any adult would understand as petty and foolish, let alone one who's made it to the highest ranks of government.
So I think it's just not going to happen, Trump's statement on the matter notably didn't mention a supply chain risk designation. This suggests to me that Hegseth went off half cocked. The guy is a liability for Trump at this point, I'm guessing he won't last much longer.
> Everyone running Claude on AWS, boom gone. The level of disruption to the US economy would be off the charts
seriously? :)
I assume those agreements were probably signed before the current fascist regime running the US government and now they want to upend the terms of said agreement to allow in more fascism to aforementioned contract.
| then they went back and said no, you need to remove those safeguards to which Anthropic is (rightly so) saying no.
So one thing to call out here is that the assumption that DoW is working on specifically these use cases is not bullet proof. They simply may not want to share with anthropic exactly what they are working on for natsec issues. /we can't tell you/ could violate the terms.
It is also dumb that DoW accepted these terms in the first place.
Is this matter about publicly available model or private model? For publicly available model like opus 4.6, bad actors can do whatever they want and Anthropic won't know. If this is only about private custom model, designating public model as supply chain risk doesn't make sense as others can use it.
It's the Department of Defense.
[1] "only an act of Congress can formally change the name of a federal department." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_14347
(edited to add the url I omitted)
Only Congress can declare war and Congress has the "power of the purse".
"You can just do things" (evil edition).
If anyone is the epitomy of arrogance, it is Hegseth.
No doubt the US Gov't will be using A I to perform automated military strikes without human supervision. and spying on US citizens (which they already have been doing for decades now).
Look no further than the case of patriot Mark Klein, a former AT&T technician, exposed a massive NSA surveillance program in 2006, revealing that AT&T allowed the government to intercept, copy, and monitor massive amounts of American internet traffic. Klein discovered a secret, NSA-controlled room—Room 641A—inside an AT&T facility in San Francisco, which acted as a splitter for internet traffic.
Contracts typically have escape clauses, especially for govt work.
They will just have to recompete!
It’s the Department of Defense
Yeah, but in Might v Right, well, there’s only ever one victor.
You nailed it.
With this administration, after all their proven lies, when in doubt, assume bad faith on their part. Assuming good faith at this point is Lucy and Charlie Brown and the football, but now the football is fascism (i.e., state control of corporations, e.g., what Trump administration is doing here).
Trump has historically stiffed his contractors. Why do you think his administration would be any different with adhering to a contract?
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It's not recent news that Anthropic has (had?) DoD contracts. This is a lot of words to write while seeming ignorant of basic facts about the situation.
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This is an interesting perspective, but I think the fallout from sticking to his guns here is probably greater than the public blowback he would receive from serving the DoD. Without this specific sticking point, the public would know that Anthropic was serving the DoD, but not what specifically the model was being used for, and it would be difficult to prove it wasn't something relatively innocuous.
> if the directive had never been made public, would that blog post exist?
You're ignoring the sequence of events on the ground.
If there hadn't been any been any internal pushback from Anthropic, would the directive have ever been made public?
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I was pondering the same thing and to me the answer is a contractor sold something to the DoD and Anthropic pulled the rug out from under that contractor and the DoD isn't happy about losing that.
My speculation is the "business records" domestic surveillance loophole Bush expanded (and that Palantir is build to service). That's usually how the government double-speaks its very real domestic surveillance programs. "It's technically not the government spying on you, it's private companies!" It's also why Hegseth can claim Anthropic is lying. It's not about direct government contracts. It's about contractors and the business records funnel.
Yes, I assumed a mass surveillance Palantir program also. Interesting take on how it allows them to claim “we are not doing this” while asking Anthropic to do it.
Of course they can just say - we aren’t, Palantir is.
Network recon [0]
[0] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47180540
Wow, and the only restrictions Anthropic asked for are (1) no mass domestic surveillance and (2) require human-in-the-loop for killing [1]. Those seem exceptionally reasonable, and even rather weak, lol :|
[1] https://www.anthropic.com/news/statement-department-of-war
I think that’s the whole idea. Anthropic didn’t ask for much so that they would look like the reasonable party.
Anthropic had these conditions in their contract from the very beginning, in contracts negotiated under Biden. It is their actual principled stance, not maneuvering.
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Trump doesn't want another election to happen. He needs some powerful tools to ensure that happens, ie, massive scale ai surveillance and manipulation. Eg, like Xi uses in China. I bet anyone here he starts a war as his excuse
At least with Xi’s China you get 560GW of new electricity generation in one year. You get entire tier 1 cities built in 10.
What will the new American reich accomplish?
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The sad part is that I can't process whether your post is an exaggeration or the reality.
It's insane how numb I am becoming to these blurry thin lines
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In an interview with Zelinsky Trump asks "why haven't you had an election? " Zelensky : "because we are at war" you can see the idea percolating then. People think I'm a nutter for suggesting there just won't be another election but that's where my money is. I'm waiting for his version of the Gestapo, ICE seems to be a proving ground
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There seems to be an Iran war just kicking off. That would seem a lame excuse for cancelling elections though.
That's not enough. In the US, being at war doesn't cancel elections. (I mean, he may start a war, but he would need something in addition.)
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Your bet has come out to be true.
It's pretty clear that Trump wants to maximize his take over of USA for himself.
Their intention is to turn it against the American people. Hegseth literally wrote a book about eliminating democrats from the US, and this surprises people.
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That's the restrictions for now. New restrictions could be added later or the situation of the world could change where those no longer seem reasonable. The military needs that ability to move fast and not be held back.
Even the most cockeyed reading of history will tell you that it is absolutely vital to the survival of humanity and all that is good on this earth that the US military be tied down and held back.
Did the DoW ask for these things?
This whole thing seems like people talking past each other, and that there’s something being left unsaid.
Anthropic doesn’t make a product that would assist with kill drones, and they don’t have the right to deny subpoenas.
Anthropic specifically called out systems "that take humans out of the loop entirely and automate selecting and engaging targets".
I take that to mean they don't want the military using Claude to decide who to kill. As a hyperbolic yet frankly realistic example, they don't want Claude to make a mistake and direct the military to kill innocent children accidentally identified as narco-terrorists.
At least, that's the most charitable interpretation of everything going on. I suspect they are also worried that the sitting administration wants to use AI to help them execute a full autocratic takeover of the United States, so they're attempting to kill one of the world's most innovative companies to set an example and pressure other AI labs into letting their technology be used for such purposes.
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There are enough idiots involved who "heard about this AI thing" that would demand someone make a Claude-based kill bot. Do not underestimate the disconnect from reality of senior military leadership. They easily forget that everyone who works for them are legally obligated to laugh at their jokes.
What do subpoenas have to do with anything?
Where is all the weird misinformation in these comments coming from?
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You make a valid point. Dario suggests that DoD wants to have the capacity to do domestic surveillance and autonomous killing. Sean Parnell said the DoD doesn't want those capacities. These statements are in conflict. Them talking past each other is one possibility. Without much evidence except the track record of the Trump administration, I think it is much more likely that Sean Parnell is lying.
So they are such a risk to national security that no contractor that works with the federal government may use them, but they're going to keep using them for six more months? So I guess our national security is significantly at risk for the next six months?
It's a waste of your effort to apply rational argument to the actions of a group that are in it for a shakedown.
Simple rational argument:
SCOTUS says POTUS is above the law, so POTUS has collected $4B in bribe / protection money since taking office 13 months ago. Anthropic has lots of money at the moment. Why should they be allow to keep it?
Since they didn't pay off the president (enough?), his goons are going to screw with their revenue and run a PR smear campaign.
Once you realize it only has to do with Trump's personal finances, and nothing to do with national security or the rule of law, then all the administration's actions make perfect rational sense.
Open question: How much should a congress-critter charge Trump for a favorable vote? (The check should come with a presidential pardon in the envelope, of course...)
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It’s the mob. This is nothing more than, “Nice AI ya got here. Be a shame if sometin’ wuz to happen to it.”
Except that it’s sovereign.
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Keep in mind that Anthropic “is the only A.I. company currently operating on the Pentagon’s classified systems” [1].
[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2026/02/27/technology/defense-depart...
Because Palentir is using Anthropic.
From what i understand, Palentir using Claude during the capturing of Maduro is the reason all this started, as Anthropic did not agree their systems were used that way. [1]
Obviously Palentir and others need time to migrate off Anthropic’s products. The way i read it is that Anthropic made a serious miscalculation by joining the DoD contracts last year, you can’t have these kind of moral standards and at the same time have Palentir as a customer. The lack of foresight is interesting.
1 https://www.axios.com/2026/02/15/claude-pentagon-anthropic-c...
They are the same amount of ‘risk’ to national security that the various ‘emergencies’ the executive branch has used as legal excuses to do otherwise illegal things are emergencies.
Congress is negligent in not reigning this kind of thing in. We’re rapidly falling down so many slippery semantic slopes.
I'm def adding "slippery semantic slopes" to my vocab.
> Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect
For this administration the law isn't something that binds them, but something they can use against others.
the administration which declares ad-hoc emergencies is behaving as predicted
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Dont forget Nvidia technology was condsidered too sensitive to be exported to China....until the Trump administration decided they could export it if they paid a 10% export tax.
We've moved beyond telling people not to forget and have entered "expect nothing less" territory
Aren't export taxes against the US constitution?
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The part of this you're missing is that China doesn't want it [1].
Why? Because China will make their own. This has been obvious to me for at least 1-2 years. The US doesn't allow EUV lithography machines from ASML to be exported to China either. I believe the previous export ban on the most advanced chip was a strategic error because it created a captive market of Chinese customers for Chinese chips.
China will replicate EUV far quicker than Western governments expect. All it takes is to throw money at a few key ASML engineers and researchers and the commitment of the state to follow through with this project, which they will.
I'm absolutely reminded of the atomic bomb. This created quite the debate in military and foreign policy circles about what to do. The prevailing presumption was that the USSR would take 20 years to develop their own bomb if it ever happened.
It took 4 years.
And then in 1952 the US detonated the first thermonuclear bomb. The USSR followed suit in 1953.
[1]: https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/artificial-intell...
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Isn't this our governments classic negotiation strategy? Go to the extreme, and meet somewhere well on their side of the middle.
The Trump administration tends to use this playbook.
Putting aside my take, I’m trying to objectively make sure I’m grounded on what is likely to happen next, without confusing “what is” with “what is ok”.
Don't make the mistake of thinking their words have meaning. They see a way to punish the company, they take it. Same thing with declaring a national emergency to impose tariffs. There's no supply chain risk, no national emergency, but that doesn't stop them.
Can't just unplug the thing and use something else.
Obviously the DoD would not want limited use. Strange they don't make their own given their specific needs.
I think this is maybe the most revealing thing about this saga, that seemingly the U.S. government has not been training their own frontier models.
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> Obviously the DoD would not want limited use.
I agree in this sense: Hegseth's Dept. of War doesn't want any restrictions. I'll try to make the case this is self-defeating, assuming one has genuine, long-term national interests at the front of mind (which I think is lacking or at least confused in Hegseth).
Historically, other (wiser) SecDefs would decide more carefully. They are aware when their actions would position DoD outside of reasonable ethical norms, as defined both by their key personnel as well as broader culture. I think they would recognize Hegseth's course of action as having two broadly negative effects:
1. Technology, Employees, Contractors. Jeopardizes DoD's access to the best technology. Undermines efforts in hiring the best people. Demotivates existing employees and contractors. Bullying leads to fearful contractors who perform worse. Fewer good contractors show up. Trumpist corruption further degrades an already lagging, sluggish, inefficient system.*
2. Goodwill & Effectiveness. Damages international goodwill that takes a long time to restore. Goodwill is a good investment; it pays dividends for U.S. military strength. The fallout will distract Hegseth from legitimately important duties and further undermine his credibility. Leading probably to a political mess for Hegseth, undermining his political capital.
* Improving DoD procurement is already hard given existing constraints. Adding Trumpist-level corruption makes it unnecessarily worse. There is already an unsavory, poorly tracked, bloated gravy train around the military industrial complex.**
** BUT... Despite all this, the system has more or less worked reasonably well for more than what, 80 years! It has enjoyed bipartisan continuity, kept scientists and mathematicians well funded, and spurred lots of useful industries. It is, in a weird gnarly way, a sort of flux capacitor for U.S. technical dominance.
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> So I guess our national security is significantly at risk for the next six months?
That does seem to be what Hegseth is arguing, yes; and that is presumably his justification for doing something drastic here. Although I assume he is lying or wrong.
And as a cynic, let me just add that the image of someone going to the political overseers of the US military with arguments about being "effective" or "altruistic" is just hilarious given their history over the last ~40 years.
There has been a terrifying decline in quality and an increase in corruption in Trump’s second administration.
Re: the hilarity part, I’m conflicted: in general, a good sense of humor is useful, but in present circumstances a stoic seriousness seems warranted.
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Any documentation regarding the claim about breaking their contract?
Haven't heard that. Regardless, as someone who works with these models daily (as well as company leadership that loves AI more than they understand it) - Anthropic is absolutely right to say that the military shouldn't be allowed to use it for lethal, autonomous force.
The United States has freedom of speech. The Supreme Court has ruled that money is speech. A company can always direct their money, speech, however they like with regards to the government. Can you be sued for breach of contract? Sure. Is it a supply chain risk absolutely not.
> They are a "supply chain risk" if they can willy-nilly break their contract with US govt and enforce arbitrary rules to service.
It is the US govt that seeks to break their contract with Anthropic.
The contract they signed had the safeguards, so they were mutually agreed upon. These safeguards against fully autonomous killbots and AI spying of US citizens was known before signing.
This conflict now is because the US govt regrets what they agreed to in the contract.
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> completely understandable decision from a neutral third party PoV.
Except it's not, really. If Anthropic/Claude doesn't mean the DoD's need, they can and should just put out an RFP for other LLM providers. I'm sure there's plenty of others that'd happily forgo their morals for that sweet government contract money.
No US company has to provide services to the DoD or any other branch of government. It's not "veto power" it's being selective of who you do business with, which is 100% legal.
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Then you go to another supplier. But any company with proper counsel will tell them the same thing: don't break the law, which is exactly what they're trying to coerce Anthropic into doing. DoD requests do not supersede the law.
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Not unless they're the sole supplier of the technology. They're saying, if you want to do this kind of thing - not with our product, but you can get it elsewhere.
No, you are the one lying trying to get political gotchas here. There is no "trying to exert veto power" absolutely anywhere, Anthropic's terms were laid out in the contract the Pentagon signed, which they want to forcibly amend. If they didn't like the terms, they didn't need to sign the contract.
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Or worse: train the AI to make decisions that align with the view of Anthropic management and not the elected government. Workout telling anyone.
I’d agree it is a serious risk.
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I admire Anthropic for sticking to their principles, even if it affects the bottom line. That’s the kind of company you want to work for.
It's also a very clear differentiator for them relative to Google, Facebook, and OpenAI, all of whom are clearly varying degrees of willing to sell themselves out for evil purposes.
It will also cost openai dearly if they don't communicate clearly, because I for one will internally push to switch from openai (we are on azure actually) to anthropic. Besides that my private account also.
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Is making effective weapons evil?
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Companies change (remember "don't be evil"?) but yeah for the Anthropic of today, respect.
I'm signing up for their $200/year plan to reward them for standing up to this regime.
The team that handles their PR has done an amazing job in the last 9 months
Hint: It's much easier to have good PR by being actually good. Though it does make people like this do the whole implication thing.
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Why? What has their PR department done? Most people are quite critical of a lot of their messaging, it's their actions that seem worth encouraging
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This whole saga is extremely depressing and dystopic.
Anthropic is holding firm on incredibly weak red lines. No mass surveillance for Americans, ok for everyone else, and ok to automatic war machines, just not fully unmanned until they can guarantee a certain quality.
This should be a laughably spineless position. But under this administration it is taken as an affront to the president and results in the government lashing out.
We live in a timeline where you don’t have to have strong morals to be crushed. If you have any morals, you will be crushed.
They have earned my business, for now.
If you're a billionaire there's no risk to "sticking to principles", so there's nothing to admire. Also that's not what they're doing. These are calculated moves in a negotiation and the trump regime only has 3 years left. Even a CEO can think 4 years ahead.
It's probably in Anthropic's interest to throw grok to these clowns and watch them fail to build anything with it for 3 years.
i disagree. 3 years is an insanely long time in the AI space. The entire industry pretty much didn't even exist three years ago! Or at least not within 4 orders of magnitude.
Also, every other company has bent the knee and kissed the ring. And the trump admin will absolutely do everything they can to not appear weak and harm Anthropic. If it was so easy to act principled, don't you think other companies would've refused too? Eg Apple
And there is real harm here. You're reading about it - they get labeled a supply chain risk. This is negative and very tangible
Considering how many bootlicking billionaires I see these days, it is still a bit surprising.
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There is already genai.mil: https://www.war.gov/News/Releases/Release/Article/4354916/
why does it need to be a completely different, trained model? AWS doesn't provide unique technologies in their goverment cloud, beyond isolation and firewalled access; Anthropic can do the same thing. Probably need to cough up enough to register a new domain name!
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Exactly.
> 83 people in total killed in US attack to abduct President Nicolas Maduro
Blood is on their hands already
So much left unsaid. So much implied. Let’s make it explicit and talk about it. Here are some follow questions that reasonable people will ask:
What was Anthropic’s role in the Maduro operation? (Or we can call it state-sponsored kidnapping.) Who knew what and when? Did A\ find itself in a position where it contradicted its core principles?
More broadly, how does moral culpability work in complex situations like this?
How much moral culpability gets attributed to a helicopter manufacturer used in the Maduro operation? (Assuming one was; you can see my meaning I hope.)
P.S. Traditional programming is easy in comparison to morality.
Good. I'd rather not have my favorite AI from a company working on AGI to have murder and spying in it's DNA.
In fact, as a patriotic American veteran, I'd be ok with Anthropic moving to Europe. It might be better for Claude and AGI, which are overriding issues for me.
Rutger Bregman @rcbregman
This is a huge opportunity for Europe. Welcome Anthropic with open arms. Roll out the red carpet. Visa for all employees.
Europe already controls the AI hardware bottleneck through ASML. Add the world's leading AI safety lab and you have the foundations of an AI superpower.
https://x.com/rcbregman/status/2027335479582925287
> Good. I'd rather not have my favorite AI from a company working on AGI to have murder and spying in it's DNA.
Anthropic made it quite clear they are cool with spying in general, just not domestic spying on Americans, and their "no killbots" pledge was asterisked with "because we don't believe the technology is reliable enough for those stakes yet". The implication being that they absolutely would do killbots once they think they can nail the execution (pun intended).
I suppose you could say they're taking the high road relative to their peers, but that's an extremely low bar.
I wouldn't say it's clear. People keep pointing to the wording used in the statement to say it, but I wonder if it has to do with constitutionally; domestic surveillance of people in the US without a warrant is against the constitution, and surveillance of non-citizens outside the U.S is not. Can they even be compelled by the executive branch to do an action that may be unconstitutional?
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Canada is another option. Canada has significant AI research institutes going back decades ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mila_(research_institute) ) that have produced much of the foundational research that backs today's AI models.
For Americans and international researchers it's easy to get visas there quickly. It's not far at all for Americans to relocate to or visit. Electricity is cheap and clean. Canada has the most college educated adults per capita. The country's commitment to liberalism, and free markets, is also seeming more steadfast than the US at this point in time.
Canada faces obstacles with its much smaller VC ecosystem, its smaller domestic market, and the threat of US economic aggression. Canada's recent trade deals are likely to help there.
I say this all as an American who is loyal to American values first and foremost. If the US wants to move away from its core values I hope other countries, like Canada or the EU, can carry on as successful examples for the US to eventually return to.
Canada is not as good as Europe when it comes to be out of reach of the US
Do all of the employees want to move to Europe suddenly? Unless it’s the UK or Ireland, do they speak the local language? If it is the UK or Ireland, do they prefer the weather in California? Do they have children in school or in college locally? Do they have family they’d rather not move 9 time zones away from? Elderly parents they’re taking care of?
They only have to move their headquarters no? Reincorporate in France. Hire Yann LeCun (I like LeCun)
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I have my doubts about Anthropic wanting to pick up and move the entire company to Europe even if Ursula von der Leyen personally signed their visas. Maybe only if the government tried to nationalise their proprietary models.
doesn't the Defense Production Act essentially do that?
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Where is this text located? I googled "Anthropic Constitution" and found "Claude Constitution" (this this the same thing to you? I don't think the company Claude has a "constitution" itself.
Within the Claude Constitution, the words "non-western" do not appear. Where is your quote from?
Why wouldn’t the government just arrest their board and execs on charges of treason or something? At this point they could probably publicly hang them all and a plurality of Americans would cheer it. I don’t know if you appreciate how disliked tech is by the left and right alike.
The left would never support that lawlessness: opposition to AI is based on things like ethics, environmental impact, etc. which are predicated on concepts like the rule of law. People are calling for regulation or UBI, mor killings.
The right has far more talk of violence, true, but a lot of that is targeted rhetoric to keep voters riled up, and it’s not aimed at American businesses. I’d be surprised if even a third of Republicans supported anything more than not doing business with Anthropic. Even the Nvidia shakedown got a ton of criticism and that’s just money.
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AGI? My guy, it's a text predictor slot machine. Very useful tool but will never be AGI.
"I can state flatly that heavier than air flying machines are impossible. — Lord Kelvin, 1895"
I'm sure this doesn't apply to you since you're not Lord Kelvin. On the other hand, people like Peter Norvig state in a popular AI textbook that, for example, they don't know why similar concepts appear close by in the vector space, so maybe you just know something other people don't.
Said the biological text predictor…
Map problems to slot machines, guess enough slots and you're indistinguishable from GI.
I'm not taking a position here but the person you're replying to stated that Anthropic are working on AGI, not that their current LLM offering will evolve into AGI.
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2021 called, they want their uninformed metaphor back.
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He said “from a company working on AGI” which is true. Not to mention that the sarcastic nature of your comment is off putting
GPT–2 was AGI
Pretty rich coming from an AGI that’s running on a bowlful of mildly electrified meat. Emergent properties, my guy.
Europe doesn’t give a shit about another American company and their employees trying to dominate their markets and import their workaholic American culture. They will tell Anthropic to go home.
"Europe" is not a single entity with uniform opinions. As an European, I would much rather have hardworking people and """workaholic""" culture than regress to an underdeveloped culture fueled by laziness.
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This is pretty disconnected to how EU has been behaving towards both startups and AI.
Europe doesn't care about onshoring the best AI in the world and possibly achieving AGI before everyone? That's a laughable assertion.
Not sure where you are in Europe, but in France, Macron would bend over backward.
If Anthropic moving to Europe was better for Claude, why has Europe not produced Claude?
Europe doesn't have a culture of throwing illimitate money at startups with little hope of getting anything back. Which is probably due to not having petrodollars.
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Topics like this are where I struggle with HN philosophy. Normally avoiding politics and ideology where possible, created higher quality and more interesting discussions.
But how do you even begin to discuss that Tweet or this topic without talking about ideology and to contextualize this with other seemingly unrelated things currently going on in the US?
I genuinely don't think I'm conversationally agile enough to both discuss this topic while still able to avoid the political/ideological rabbit-hole.
You can't discuss this topic without broaching the idea that the government is acting in bad faith — that they don't actually believe that Anthropic is a supply-chain risk and that this action is meant to punish the company. But this is in the HN guidelines regarding comments:
> Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith.
If a commenter who supports the government makes the same argument that the government is making, the guidelines tell us to assume good faith.
My conclusion is that any topic where a commenter might be making a bad faith argument is outside the scope of Hacker News.
My interpretation of that is that I’m required to assume good faith on behalf of other commenters. So, if someone makes the same argument as the government, I’m supposed to assume good faith there, but nothing requires me to assume good faith on behalf of the government. So I can say that this is obviously a shakedown without breaking the rules.
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On the other hand, pretending the government is acting in good faith is probably acting in bad faith at this point.
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>Assume good faith.
This is more for “assume op is not a troll” rather than “assume Donald trump never took part on Epstein’s parties”.
I’ve never taken it to apply to anything other than the interaction with other commenters.
I've been on hn for years and I see this kind of sentiment raised all the time. It is not my understanding of the guidelines.
Politics and ideology are not off topic, provided the subject matter is of interest, or "gratifying", to colleagues in the tech/start-up space.
What's important is that we don't use rhetoric, bad faith or argumentation to force our views on others. But expressing our opinions about how policy affects technology and vice versa has always been welcome, in my observation.
So, what do you think about the US government's decision, and why?
> Normally avoiding politics and ideology where possible, created higher quality and more interesting discussions.
Everything is politics and "ideology"
Everything is political. All of our tech exists within society, and the actions of the government shape the incentives of every actor and the framework we exist in.
HN likes to pretend otherwise, especially when it's inconvenient.
Being a hacker used to be an extremely political and ideological movement. Then capitalism came along and bought the term. It's about time we take that word back where it belongs.
Tell me, oh sage, how it was possible to become a hacker before "capitalism" created the computers needed to do so? And no, hacking was not "an extremely political and ideological movement", it was (and is) the a[c,r]t of going down as deep the rabbit hole of whatever the was to be hacked as time and the hole allowed to see what lurks there. The term was eventually co-opted by the media - not "capitalism" - to identify those who broke into networks and computers but that does not need to bother you. There have been and are those who combine - usually anti-authoritarian - politics with hacking but they were and are only a part of the whole.
Don't you ever get tired of spouting that grade school "muh capitalism bad" pablum, of being what Lenin supposedly called a "useful idiot"? Also, who are the "we" who you think should "take back" the word hacking? In what way would this be "taking back" instead of "taking over"? If you think it should be "extremely political and ideological" it would surely be the latter. Would your definition of hacking have room for those who dared to venture beyond your "extremely political and ideological" boundaries or those who just want to hack without needing to wear the right buttons, pins and clothes?
Signed, a grey-bearded hacker.
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>Topics like this are where I struggle with HN philosophy. Normally avoiding politics and ideology where possible, created higher quality and more interesting discussions.
Our whole society runs on technology. All tech is inherently political.
A "no politics" stance is merely an endorsement of the status quo.
The status quo has been enormously beneficial for the people who own HN, and they would like this to continue.
Welcome to reality. HN likes to pretend politics is something you can just look away from and ignore. That’s a mighty big privilege, which makes sense since HN skews cis-white-het-male. That’s not a lie. It is easy to ignore this when it doesn’t touch them. But now it DOES touch them, and you’ve just discovered what every oppressed group in history has to live with: politics doesn’t just go away if you ignore it.
If the last ten years have taught us anything it's that politics just isn't a topic isolated to the halls of government. It's real life. Political alignment has never so starkly indicative of your position on fundamental human morality. At the same time we've never had a government be so directly involved in private businesses.
I don't know which HN you have been using so far, but this particular site discusses politics all the time when it comes to Trump administration.
Please at least try. There are already enough contributors here "qualified" to talk about politics.
Why would you want to be non-political in 2026? The current administration is awful in ways we couldn't have imagined. There's no sense in not talking about it.
I appreciate your restraint, and keeping this a high quality discussion space. As a political dissident myself, I don't mind some threads going political, I expect them to. The best ones are when there is a lot of disagreement or debate. As long as its not in every unrelated thread....
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McCarthyism began in 1947, with Truman demanding goverment employees be "screened for loyalty". They wanted to remove anyone who was a member of an "organization" they didn't like. It began with hearings, and then blacklists, and then arrests and prison sentences. It lasted until 1959. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism)
This is the new McCarthyism. Do what the administration says, or you will be blacklisted, or worse.
Feels a bit like Jack Ma and Alibaba
Yes, this is more accurate. They are trying to rein in big corporations and make them bend the knee before the government.
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This could kill Anthropic.
The designation says any contractor, supplier, or partner doing business with the US military can’t conduct any commercial activity with Anthropic. Well, AWS has JWCC. Microsoft has Azure Government. Google has DoD contracts. If that language is enforced broadly, then Claude gets kicked off Bedrock, Vertex, and potentially Azure… which is where all the enterprise revenue lives. Claude cannot survive on $200/mo individual powerusers. The math just doesn’t math.
None of the hyper scalers are going to stop offering Claude. All of the big 3 have invested billions of dollars into Anthropic, and have tens (if not hundreds) of billions more tied up in funding deals with them. Amazon and Google are two of the largest shareholders of Anthropic.
Anthropic is going to be fine. The DoD is going to walk this back and pretend it never happened to save face.
* * *
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It will really depend on the fine details. If Amazon would lose its military contracts unless it dropped Claude, then Claude will be gone tomorrow. They just got a half billion contract for the Air Force earlier this year, and it's not their only military contract, and they're going to want to be well positioned next time something like the JEDI contract comes along.
Also, AWS has a long history of rolling over when politicians make noise about AWS customers, going back to when Joe Lieberman casually asked Bezos to please stop supporting Wikileaks.
I don't think you understand. This supply chain risk designation is viral. Every Claude model provider now has to decide whether to (1) drop Anthropic models, or (2) drop every single government contract, every contract with government contractors, or any customer who has any customer to any degree of connection to a government contract [which is effectively everyone], or (3) go to jail.
GovCloud revenue is in the tens of billions of dollars. Bedrock less so. Almost every FedRAMP product uses the same codebase for Fed and non-Fed, and this would force most FedRAMP vendors to blackball Anthropic.
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I would find that a lot more plausible if people had not spent the past week giving me similar arguments, in precisely the same tone, for why this was an empty threat and would never happen in the first place. If Amazon and Google do not either bow down or immediately join a business coalition to get Trump out of power, Hegseth will be even happier to get an opportunity to prove his power by destroying them. Trump either doesn't want to stop him or has become too senile to stop him.
Not entirely true.
The designation only applies to projects that touch the federal government, or software developed specifically for the federal government.
Contractors can still use Claude internally in their business, so long as it is not used in government work directly.
A complete ban would be adding Anthropic to the NDAA, which requires congress.
The DoD designation allows the DoD to make contractors certify that Anthropic is not used in the fulfillment of the government work.
The language in the tweet was
" Effective immediately, no contractor, supplier, or partner that does business with the United States military may conduct any commercial activity with Anthropic."
Is that just his fantasy or?
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> Contractors can still use Claude internally in their business, so long as it is not used in government work directly.
I work in the enterprise SaaS and cybersecurity industry. There is no way to guarantee that amongst any FedRAMP vendor (which is almost every cybersecurity and enterprise SaaS or on their roadmap).
Almost all FedRAMP products I've built, launched, sold, or funded were the same build as the commerical offering, but with siloed data and network access.
This means the entire security and enterprise SaaS industry will have to shift away from Anthropic unless the DPA is invoked and management is changed.
More likely, I think the DoD/DoW and their vendors will force Anthropic to retrain a sovereign model specifically for the US Gov.
Edit: Can't reply
> This is the core assertion that is not clear nor absolute.
If Walmart can forcibly add verbiage banning AWS from it's vendors and suppliers, the US government absolutely can. At least with Walmart they will accept a segmented environment using GCP+Azure+OCI. Retraining a foundational model to be Gov compliant is a project that would cost billions.
By declaring Anthropic a supply chain risk, it will now be contractually added by everyone becuase no GRC team will allow Anthropic anywhere in a company that even remotely touches FedRAMP and it will be forcibly added into contracts.
No one can guarantee that your codebase was not touched by Claude or a product using Claude in the background, so this will be added contractually.
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It is narrower than that by law, though not by their proclamation.
That label forbids contractors on DoD contracts for billing DoD for Anthropic, or including Anthropic as part of their DoD solution.
So - AWS can keep claude on bedrock, but can't provide claude to the DoD under its DoD contracts
From what I’ve heard the actual restriction is just on using Claude for stuff they’re doing for the Pentagon. They’ll keep using Claude for everything else and be less effective when they work for the government, and that’s fine because everyone else working for the government will have the same handicap.
This will likely go to court, again as Dario has stated this is blatant retaliation as no US company has ever been designated a supply chain risk and they continue to operate on classified systems for 6 more months.
Yea strong odds this goes to court, the DoD’s clearly inconsistent logic is ridiculed by a judge, the designation is dropped, and everyone quietly goes about their way with the DoD continuing to use Claude according to the existing terms of the contract.
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I’m sure most of their revenue is large enterprise customers who serve government with their products - this looks very bad
That's what hegseth says, but the law doesn't really say that AFAICT.
There's going to be a TRO against the attempt by like 9 AM Monday, and the bad faith from the government couldn't be more obvious. All it's really going to do is cost them some extremely expensive lawyer time.
> This could kill Anthropic
I am both dumb and without access to Claude, thus I must ask: My fellow smart HN'ers, what kind of impacts would this likely have on the economy?
Has a lot of money and resources not been pumped into Anthropic (albeit likely less than OpenAI)? I imagine such a decision would not be the ROI that many investors expected.
No, Anthropic could easily call their bluff.
"Effective immediately, no contractor, supplier, or partner that does business with the United States military may conduct any commercial activity with Anthropic."
This is authoritarian behavior. You're having trouble negotiating a contract, so instead of just canceling it - you basically ban all of F500 from doing business with that firm.
This certainly isn't going to attract foreign investment. Business isn't big on governments that capriciously threaten to seize control of or financially harm them.
The US is currently an autocracy/idiocracy. A staggeringly corrupt, busted nation.
Soon enough the midterms will be effectively cancelled.
Americans remain blissfully unaware.
> The US is currently an autocracy/idiocracy. A staggeringly corrupt, busted nation.
We are in a bad place right now, that is for certain.
> Soon enough the midterms will be effectively cancelled.
That would be a pretty big leap from where we are. I think it is important to pay attention, and very important to vote, but there is not a particularly plausible route to cancelling any elections. But they can certainly make enough noise that a lot of people may become confused or scared to vote. So we need to remain laser focused on getting everybody to the polls. Like, this should be priority #1 for every citizen who wants to see democracy continue.
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No, it's pretty obvious what these ******s are about to pull. "We'Re NeVeR gOiNg BaCk" --Trump
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To be clear, the sovereign is generally considered to be vested in Congress as representatives of the true sovereign, the people.
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What does being sovereign have to do with anything in this case?
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Anthropic dictating what our military can and can't do is also authoritarian behavior. The military is responsible to the US people, where Anthropic isn't. Giving power to a company instead of the people is wrong.
The word you are searching for is not authoritarian, but liberty.
Is Anthropic required to sell to the government even if doesn't want to, and is willing to give up its government contracts rather than change its terms of use?
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So what I'm hearing is, having trampled every other amendment in the Bill of Rights, the Trump administration is now turning its sights to the Third.
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> Effective immediately, no contractor, supplier, or partner that does business with the United States military may conduct any commercial activity with Anthropic.
I’m sure the lawyers just got paged, but does this mean the hyperscalers (AWS, GCP) can’t resell Claude anymore to US companies that aren’t doing business with the DoD? That’s rough.
Probably yes. Additionally the (probably more for AWS) won't be allowed to use it internally either. This will probably apply to all the top SaaS/software companies unilaterally.
Additionally, every major university will undoubtedly have to terminate the use of Claude. First on the list will be universities that run labs under DOD contracts (e.g. MIT, Princeton, JHU), DOE contracts (Stanford, University of California, UChicago, Texas A&M, etc...), NSF facilities (UIUC, Arizona, CMU/Pitt, Purdue), NASA (Caltech).
Following that it will be just those who accept DOD/DOE/NSF grants.
There is no evidence that what you say is true. A tweet is not a legally binding statement.
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It was confirmed by the Anthropic CEO that contractors can still use Claude for non-defense work.
Billable hours will win figuring it out but in theory, no because they can’t test it or use it.
Generally any machine that touches Supply chain Risk software cannot ship any software to DoD. AWS has separate clouds but software comes from same place.
Bigger question is whether government contractors can use any Open Source software after this. Open Source is a big part of the supply chain.
It means everyone waits for the injunctions.
(edit: I'm most likely wrong)
You got it backwards, can't use claude if you ARE doing business with DoD.
Presumably AWS/GCP don't care, its up to the end customer to comply. Not like GCP KYC asks if you work with DoD.
AWS/GCP/Azure all do business with the DoD and at least AWS and Azure use Claude a decent amount internally. AWS’s Kiro tool (which is used internally instead of Claude Code) relies entirely on Claude models.
This is almost certainly going to be rolled back, because I guarantee the DoD isn’t going to stop doing business with the hyper scalers, and the hyper scalers aren’t going to stop doing business with Anthropic.
I don't think he got it backwards, at least if Hegseth's statement is accurate. AWS, GCP, etc. all do business with DoD. If they, as DoD contractors, are no longer allowed to do business with Anthropic, then presumably they have to stop re-selling or hosting Anthropic's models to anyone.
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So GitHub Copilot will remove Anthropic as an LLM provider, I suppose?
Agree with other reply. I don’t think it’s backward. No they said any commercial activity. Does not feel like a stretch that commercial activity includes reselling api usage.
have you tried punching in "Huawei" the shopping portal on google.com in the US?
No, what happens when one does?
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Even more extreme, that might mean they won't be able to offer Claude to non-US companies at all.
I don't see how you get that reading. Anthropic is clearly allowed to sell Claude to companies not doing business with the US Military. If anything that's more likely to be non-US companies.
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There is no way they can just stop selling Opus 4.6. This will crater the market.
This doesn’t erase Claude, and even if it did Gemini and Codex are there to replace it.
Even if a ton of companies have to switch over to an alternative, it won’t be catastrophic to the economy.
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Wait, what about Bun?
"They have threatened to remove us from their systems if we maintain these safeguards; they have also threatened to designate us a “supply chain risk”—a label reserved for US adversaries, never before applied to an American company—and to invoke the Defense Production Act to force the safeguards’ removal. These latter two threats are inherently contradictory: one labels us a security risk; the other labels Claude as essential to national security." from Dario's statement (https://www.anthropic.com/news/statement-department-of-war)
Supply chain risk ? Seems the risk here is the US Gov't wanting free reign to do whatever they want - - when they want.
Look no further than the famous expose by Mark Klein, the former AT&T technician and whistleblower who exposed the NSA's mass surveillance program in 2006, revealing the existence of "Room 641A" in San Francisco. He discovered that AT&T was using a "splitter" to copy and divert internet traffic to the NSA, proving the government was monitoring massive amounts of domestic communication.
And I think on big difference between <2006 and now is that back then nobody knew about it - now they just request it in public.
I served on the eboard of CWA local 9410 when all of that was going down.
Words cannot describe how crazy things were at that time.
I feel like someone will make a movie about it someday.
The risk is a business that doesn't lick the boot might speak truth to power.
The real question we should be asking is what others HAVE agreed to. Has OpenAI just agreed to let the government go crazy with their models?
If you read Anthropic statement carefully, they explicitly confirm they are already working with the U.S. government on a range of military and national security use cases, many including areas that clearly relate to real world lethal operations.
They are only refusing two narrow, but important categories. Framing this as blanket "refusal to support the DoD" feels like an angry, reactive own goal rather than a careful reading of what they actually said.
So far the march toward dictatorship keep being detoured by sheer incompetence. In any case, is hard to seize power when you can’t organize a group chat...
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Elon has agreed to all demands and can’t wait for gigahitler to take the reigns. I swear there is no room for good guys in this is there.
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> Altman says OpenAI agrees with Anthropic’s red lines in Pentagon dispute
https://thehill.com/policy/technology/5758898-altman-backs-a...
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Can someone in plain terms explain what this is really about?
Anyone can use Claude afaik?
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Yes. All companies that deal with the government have agreed to let the government do whatever it wants within the bounds of whatever it is those companies do.
Probably just gonna go all in on MechaHitler!
It's scary to me that there are a significant voting-bloc out there who don't see this kind of zero-integrity (and self-serving) behavior as disqualifying in anyone wielding authority.
Worse, they act like it's virtuous.
Is this the same Administration that reversed a previous block, and allowed NVIDIA to sell H200 to China?
Well, you see, that's completely different. Nvidia agreed to give them money!
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Good thing this administration will be a lame duck in 8 months, and they know it.
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The Purpose of a System is WHAT IT DOES!
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Unconstitutionally, no less:
"No Tax or Duty shall be laid on Articles exported from any State.".
I would not be surprised if an outcome of this may be a 10% government stake (maybe golden share owned by Trump) in Anthropic.
That's a shame. They might at least continue to work together to spy on foreigners. I don't understand the fuss anyway, what do claude models do that gpt and gemini can't?
As a foreigner, i see this as a great thing! I was about to cancel my Claude sub, but now i might hold on to it for a little and see how this plays out.
For these people, it is just about control.
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it's more the way they do them.. you've used them right?
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It feels like when you are negotiating a contract for job with a toxic employer who you still don’t know they are toxic yet.
Trump wrote a long rant on Truth Social and ordered ALL federal agencies to stop using Anthropic. Not just the department of defense. This is straight up authoritarian.
Meanwhile, irrelevant "AI Czar" David Sacks, member of the PayPal mafia alongside known Epstein affiliates Elon Musk and Peter Thiel, is furiously retweeting all the posts from Trump, Hegseth, and other accounts. He is such a coward and anti American:
https://xcancel.com/davidsacks
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Circus-grade contortionism here.
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I don’t see a contradiction here. If control is out of the hands of decision makers, that’s a supply chain risk . Were it not for that, the service is seen as critical to national security.
I dunno, safeguard seems like a weasel word here. It’s just reserving control to one party over another. It’s understandable why the DoD(W) wouldn’t like that.
I'm pretty sure you (and others) are trying to apply some kind of guess at the "supply chain risk" designation, but it means something specific.
Here's the term defined in an official context:
https://www.acquisition.gov/dfars/252.239-7018-supply-chain-....
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Hard decision by Anthropic, but at least they can sleep well at night knowing their products doesn’t kill human beings around the world.
That’s the crazy thing. This whole dispute was over Anthropic saying no to fully automated kill bots. They only required there be a human in the loop to press the button.
Anthropic didn't even say "no", it was more of a "not yet, let's work on this".
I really wonder what Palantir's role in all this is because domestic surveillance sounds exactly like Palantir and whatever happened during the Maduro raid led to Anthropic asking Palantir questions which the news reports is the snowball that escalated to this.
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They also said no to fully automated AI domestic surveillance. I suppose non-US citizens like me are screwed but that's at least some small comfort for the natives. FVEY will just spy on each other and share but at least someone tried.
There were two red lines, as I understand it -- first, automated kill bots, and second, mass surveillance.
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I think it’s far more likely this is about the other sticking point- using it to spy on US citizens.
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If we were able to give the Ukrainians fully automated kill bots, and those kill bots enabled Ukraine to swiftly expel the Russians from their territories, would that not be a good thing? Or would you rather the meat grinder continue to destroy Ukraine's young men to satisfy some moral purity threshold?
If we could give Taiwan killbots that would ensure China could never invade, or at least could never occupy Taiwan, would that be good or bad? I have a feeling I know what the Taiwanese would say.
While we're at it, should we also strip out all the machine learning/AI driven targeting systems from weapons? We might feel good about it, but I would bet my life savings that our future adversaries will not do the same.
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'yet'. Their reason for not allowing autonomous weapons usage was it isn't ready, not that they wouldn't do it on principle. Only the surveillance objection was on principle.
A bit of a cop-out, don't you think?
They still pay taxes, which fund the US government, which kills innocent human beings around the world...
Sleep well in a box under the overpass maybe. If Amazon can’t serve Anthropics model until the courts get everything figured out it will be too late for them.
I don't think it was that hard because if they had caved a LOT of employees would have quit.
Strange times. I truly feel these are the last days of our Republic. Especially if more aren't willing to take a stand.
As a Canadian looking in, I see people talking about a 36% approval as low.
How is it that high!?
That means that more than 1-in-3 of your countrymen are ride-or-die, and it's just heartbreaking to see that we're going to have to launch that many people into the sun.
To counter point, do you think AI companies located on our adversaries turf will take the same stand? I agree its nightmarish to think of AI surveillance. But why is that being lumped in with weaponry? I see these as two separate issues.
Do we need a "human in the loop" when targeting autonomous machines?
Anthropic isn't even taking a particular hard stance. Their mass surveillance prohibition only applies to domestic spying, so they're a-OK with spying adversaries. If all of the AI companies all over the world took the same stance, it wouldn't improve the life of Americans one bit.
The only other thing that the foreign AI companies could do is say no to automated killing bots, which doesn't even seem like that good of an idea considering that your countrymen will most likely have to interact with these robots that can kill without any oversight.
> "I see these as two separate issues."
... in the same sense as the two sides of a coin are separate sides maybe.
> To counter point, do you think AI companies located on our adversaries turf will take the same stand?
I guess if we are going this way, we might already start building camps for the undesirables, since our adversaries will surely do that too.
I'd say you're right, except that Trump is near death (maybe) and (more importantly) very unpopular.
He's more polarizing than usual maybe with stronger approve/unapprove ratings but his net popularity is in line with most 2nd term presidents at this stage.
https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/approval/trump-obama-...
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I’m just laughing at the possibility of it he US military being forced to use Chinese open source AI models because every US model provider refuses to work with them.
Could the NSA use a national security letter to get a copy of a major private LLM?
a letter??
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>because every US model provider refuses to work with them
Zero percent chance of that happening as long as xAI exists.
Would be even funnier if they still chose Qwen over Grok.
WW3: Chinese army of intelligent bipeds vs USA waifu memes and based jokes.
They were already banned over a year ago
Pete Hegseth is frantically asking Deepseek to come up with targets in Iran and some plausible objectives he can sell to the public.
American people: latinamerican here. Maybe it's silly to root for a country in the world hegemony arena. I've usually been partial to the USA over China. Now I'm not rooting for your country anymore. As far as I'm concerned, I'd rather have China being the foremost power, at least they seem to be less keen on invading or heavily strong-arming latinamerica
and USA created Islamic terrorism that is plaguing the whole world
Surely you mean Zionist terrorism.
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They are literally doing what China has already done. In what world would China be a better option here?
I empathize, but surely China is not the right choice? Can we please have like, Australia? Or a unified EU?
American here, I would much rather have China being the foremost power too. This saga with Anthropic shows just how clueless these AI companies are. This soap opera has to stop, none of these CEO's, officials from the Trump administration, or the Department of War are good for humanity. I've read the ethics policies that China that they released on generative AI and it's years ahead of anything we have in America.
China's AI Safety Governance Framework: https://www.cac.gov.cn/2025-09/15/c_1759653448369123.htm
Most Americans hate AI and it's effectively the ostrich effect where they hope to outright ban it and ignore everything else. Meanwhile, all the evil people are running the show. While Anthropic continues to propagate Sinophobic messaging, DeepSeek and other companies have a much more muted tone.
The cynicism is earned. But "nobody is good for humanity" is where analysis stops.
Ukrainians and Russians are experimenting with FPV drones using AI for target acquisition and homing. Not yet economically viable because it is cheaper to give your FPV fiber spool instead of Nvidia Jetson to bypass jamming.
When we have first politician blown to bits by autonomous AI FPV there will be sheer panic of every politician in the world to put the genie back into the bottle. It will be too late at that point.
Anthropic is correct with its no killbot rule.
Autonomous loitering munitions with 'AI' (image classification CNNs) are already in service and have been used - most demonstrably by the IDF.
Even during the Nagorno-Karabakh war, Azeri loitering munitions were able to suppress Armenian air defenses by hitting them when they rolled out of of concealment. I believe that killchain requires a level of autonomous functionality.
Azerbaijan was buying a lot of weapons from Israel prior to Nagorno Karabach war, so it is very likely that you have been talking about same weapon system in both cases.
However Russians and Ukrainians are using AI recognition in recon drones, but not yet in FPV. There is strong suspicion that long range one way attack drones are using AI during terminal guidance, but I did not see it confirmed by either side.
If one of our main adversaries is building these weapons already, this is actually an argument for developing this technology ourselves.
NO
That would be an argument to build anti-drone technology, not more killbots!
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As written this would be the end of Anthropic. AWS, Microsoft et al are all suppliers of the DoW and as written they must immediate stop doing business with Anthropic. Will be interesting to see how this unfolds.
TACO
https://xcancel.com/i/status/2027507717469049070
Why does everyone associated with this administration sound like a 17 year old who got dumped when they post on twitter.
Basically a reflection of the average intelligence in the U.S.
Because this administration is entirely composed of those same 17 year olds, older but not any more mature.
Hats off to Anthropic for not wavering here.
Supply-chain risks means "the potential for adversaries to sabotage, subvert, or disrupt the integrity and delivery of defense systems, including software, hardware, and services, to degrade national security".
So now Anthropic is an adversary, because it does not want "fully autonomous weapons" or automated mass surveillance? Sure thing, DoD. Go use Grok or whatever, I'm sure that will go great.
Remember to vote in this year's midterms (Nov 3) if you're eligible. I don't think it's off-topic.
Sam Altman says OpenAI shares Anthropic's red lines in Pentagon fight [1]
So OpenAI will also be marked as a supply chain risk too, right?
[1]: https://www.axios.com/2026/02/27/altman-openai-anthropic-pen...
Really hoping for an official statement from oai. If all large llms are a supply risk, I guess it's a crash
Glad there are no hard feelings after those Superbowl ads
This is why you can't gatekeep AI capabilities. It will eventually be taken from you by force.
Open-source everything. Papers, code, weights, financial records. Do all of your research in the open. Run a 100% transparent organization so that there's nothing to take from you. Level the playing field for good and bad actors alike, otherwise the bad actors will get their hands on it while everyone else is left behind.
Stop comparing AI capabilities to nuclear weapons. A nuke cannot protect against or reverse the damage of another nuke. AI capabilities are not like nukes. Diffuse it as much as possible. Give it to everyone and the good will prevail.
Build a world where millions of AGIs run on millions of gaming PCs, aligned with millions of different individuals. It is a necessary condition for humanity's survival.
This is why OpenClaw (and other claw frameworks) ar so interesting. I'm not saying the current implementation is great, mind. But it's a possible safe-er scenario, where the ecosystem is already occupied.
Nuke is the only thing that can protect you from the potential damage of another nuke.
Decades of speculative science fiction, thought experiments, and discourse led to this. It’s gratifying to see that we’ve garnered enough concern, a major AI lab risking this to reign in the potential of runaway AI disasters. Hopefully we see other labs follow.
Recent and related:
Statement from Dario Amodei on our discussions with the Department of War - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47173121 - Feb 2026 (1508 comments)
It's nice to see Anthropic sticking to their terms. I just have one question in all this. Why is Anthropic being singled out when it seems all the other big players are down to play with the DoD? Is this just a pissing match, or have the Anthropic models been proven the real winner for them?
It's same reason this administration recently tried to indict six Congresspersons for urging military members to resist "illegal orders." They want to demonize anyone who isn't blindly loyal to their side.
The discussion here underlines the reality that one can never make a “deal” with a powerful state, just as Lando Calrisian famously found out in Empire Strikes Back.
Dario is Lando, complaining “We had a deal!” Only to be told, “I’m altering the deal. Pray I don’t alter it any further.”
A drunkard, ex-fox news host, wants mass surveillance and automated killing, what could go wrong?
I wish I thought enough Americans had the spine required to stand up to this, and I know for a fact that a lot do... the solution is literally written into your constitution.
This sounds like a message to would-be founders: don't base your company in the US. The strongest markets to do business are the ones with the most freedom from government meddling. In the US, big government is happy to use its power to crush private enterprise that it doesn't like.
Note that previously this label has been applied (nearly?) exclusively to non-US companies. US companies that don't do business with the DoD are not affected, and non-US companies that do business with the DoD are affected.
Name one truly major market that is more business friendly
Singapore? The UK, apparently, since they don't do these things?
I think the argument would be that the US is rapidly becoming un-business friendly in the same way that Russia is.
Good PR for Anthropic: the DoD already has contracts with OpenAI and xAI, but is still so eager to use Claude that they must threaten Anthropic.
It may not be obvious. But this is actually a good thing when we looking back in a few years. I always feel weird that executive branch can just destroy private enterprise with "Supply-chain Risk" / "Terrorist List" without Due Process.
I guess the worry is that we don't get Due Process here and they destroy them to make an example of them.
That's a good thing right? In a capitalist society, you cannot just burn $300B without consequences. Not to mention it is not just anyone's money. It is Saudi's.
It's basically legal hacking.
Hacking is using a system in a way it was not intended to be used.
Here it is that, but applied to the law.
Hegseth and friends are a bunch of black hat legal hackers.
So they're essentially admitting they want to use Claude to mass surveil Americans and/or build autonomous weapons with no humans in the loop. Kind of nuts.
There is clearly a need to codify into all of these historical acts that they can't be invoked unless there is a declaration of war (or some other appropriate prerequisite).
This administration consistently exploits what were designed to be emergency powers because no such requirement exists. Leave no room for interpretation.
The current administration scoffs at laws. Nothing stopping them in that case from declaring war on Nauru and doing all the same. The solution is a sane, informed electorate, which is much more difficult in this age where a few disgustingly rich people have so much influence over news and media.
Labeling a company that refused to comply with nakedly authoritarian orders is a true New Speak moment
I imagine I'm not the only one to switch over to giving Claude my money today. I'm sure the "Other" comments for the cancellation were often as blunt as mine.
Q: "Is there anything we could do to change your mind?"
A: "Yes! Stand up to the current administration."
What player is going to step in and do what Anthropic wouldn't? Or, worse, will the DoW try to author its own AI to go where private AI won't?
Probably Grog, which probably means even worse outcomes
I think it's called grok, grog sounds like a caveman name.
Actually they both sound like caveman names. I understand the confusion.
At least we'll have hyper sexualized child soldiers to look forward to in our upcoming xAI powered civil war!
Grok is already being brought in
How many layers deep does this go? Does Microsoft using Claude to develop their Word products mean the US government has to switch to linux?
It means MS has to stop using Claude.
> "Effective immediately, no contractor, supplier, or partner that does business with the United States military may conduct any commercial activity with Anthropic."
Does this mean Azure & AWS will have to stop offering Claude as a model?
You would have to assume it will be immediately challenged and an injunction filed to suspend the order until it makes it to court.
AWS Bedrock has deployed Anthropic models under an interesting structure. It is fully hands off - the models are copied into the AWS infrastructure and don't use anything from Anthropic. I think if push came to shove, Anthropic could cut ties with Amazon and AWS could probably still keep serving the models it has with Anthropic forgoing revenue until this is resolved, while asserting they are not "conducting commercial activity" between each other.
All speculation of course.
I wonder, can't Amazon create a new legal entity to split AWS into "AWS-for-DoD" and "AWS-for-everyone-else"? So one can work with Anthropic and the other can't. Not sure how it works in the US.
Given that Anthropic is clearly risking their entire business just to stand up for what they believe is right, which appears to be what everyone here agrees with, is everyone who is supporting them here planning to also start using Anthropic and switch away from other vendors until they follow suit? Or are folks planning to just use whatever regardless?
Edit: I should perhaps clarify I'm more interested in paid users, rather than free. It's harder to tell if free users switching would help them or hurt them... curious if anyone has thoughts on that too.
i’m currently subscribed to openai for their $20 a month tier chatgpt subscription.
i told myself if anthropic does not back down on their current stipulations to the DoD, then i’d cancel and switch over to claude
they said there is a line they do not want to cross, and stuck to that stance, at great personal and financial risk to themselves
I've only ever used the free plans, but I'd consider a sub with Anthropic now.
My understanding is that they would have been likely to lose many of their senior researchers if they had backed down here.
I'm switching.
Anthropic’s stance is fundamentally incompatible with American principles.
Come to EU guys, we'll prepare a warm welcome!
EU won't do 996
Not doing 996 is a feature not a bug
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We have other places outside of France, come on!
what does 996 mean?
As in live a healthy life so you can make your work hours more productive?
> Anthropic’s stance is fundamentally incompatible with American principles.
TIL Fully automated killbots and mass domestic surveillance are American principles.
I mean, I should have known but there's no clearer sign saying "leave the country now if you don't agree with this admin" than now I guess.
Does Anthropic have standing to sue to Government for libel? I don’t think the Government is allowed to arbitrarily designate a company a supply chain risk without good cause.
Probably used Claude to write the tweet.
"Hey Claude, make this sound less durnk ..."
Under normal circumstances this would end up in court, but when this administration ignores court orders it doesnt like Anthropic would effectively have no legal recourse.
What court orders has the admin ignored?
Here's one specific case[0] and an article citing 35 others over the course of 6 months[1]:
[0]https://www.ap.org/news-highlights/spotlights/2025/unquestio...
[1]https://www.nytimes.com/2026/02/23/us/politics/judges-contem...
I got downvoted for this in the other thread, but this is basically an attempt at bankrupting Anthropic. No US company has ever been designated a supply chain risk, and the foreign companies that are on that list are now doing 0 business in the US. Very large portion of the US economy relies on some contracts with the US government, Anthropic cannot survive this if this holds.
I don't think it will hold, in the end this is mafia behavior, but if it does, we are yet again in uncharted waters.
This was basically what Marc Andreessen said - allegedly he was told by some high-up government officials something like: they were going to pick winners and losers in the AI race, and it would be a bad idea to try to compete in that market. It seems like the election of Trump has only changed the criteria for being a winner.
It's fascinating to me that this decision was set for 5 pm ET on a friday, and I think it may be more responsible to set big deadlines like this for a time while the stock market is open. I imagine this will negatively impact confidence in the US economy at large, and stock markets will reflect that. But since the market is closed, we'll have to wait till Monday, with the tension/anticipation of a drop building. If the deadline had been set for say, midday thursday, the market would have responded immediately, but at least you wouldn't have the building anxiety over the weekend. Of course the result wasn't known ahead of time, and I imagine some people will argue that the weekend will give investors time to cool off instead of following their gut reaction. But personally I don't find those arguments very convincing.
It's extremely common to release negative news on Friday after the markets close. It happens nearly every Friday.
Is there a reason that is done, beyond just tradition? I’m genuinely very curious whether there’s a positive, negative, or negligible impact on economic decision making
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> Our position has never wavered and will never waver: the Department of War must have full, unrestricted access to Anthropic’s models for every LAWFUL purpose in defense of the Republic.
Kesha tried to hug Jerry Seinfeld vibes.
> Anthropic delivered a master class in arrogance and betrayal as well as a textbook case of how not to do business with the United States Government or the Pentagon.
Strange way of saying "this vendor doesn't meet our software requirements".
> they have attempted to strong-arm the United States military into submission
Err... You approached them?
> a cowardly act of corporate virtue-signaling that places Silicon Valley ideology above American lives.
It's an orthogonal point, but "Silicon Valley ideology" has made up a significant portion of the USA's GDP for the last however many years.
> Their true objective is unmistakable: to seize veto power over the operational decisions of the United States military. That is unacceptable.
Again... You approached them?
> I am directing the Department of War to designate Anthropic a Supply-Chain Risk to National Security.
Like most companies in the world I imagine. They just haven't been approached yet.
> to allow for a seamless transition to a better and more patriotic service.
Internally re-framing all the recent "EU moving away from American tech!" articles as "EU builds more patriotic services!"
> This decision is final.
Nothing says "final" like a Tweet. The most uncontroversial and binding mechanism of all communication.
>>LAWFUL
This word effectively means NOTHING, anymore.
Doublespeak this motherfucking wrongthink.
Should military contractors put conditions on the use of their weapons? Here's our tank, but you can't invade Iran with it? We think your invasion of Venezuela is illegal, we're activating the kill switch on your jets. That's a real dangerous proposition.
They can, but the government can always just not buy their stuff.
That's not what the government is doing here.
If the T&C is agreed to up front, why shouldn't they be able to? If their client or potential client doesn't like the T&C, they can find another vendor.
"Department of War" - I suppose one could give them credit for being honest but what bastards...
The name is the Department of Defense. Congress did not vote to rename it, so the name hasn’t changed.
Oh well, I guess I've got no choice but to sign my business up for Pro plans with Kimi K2.5. lol.
https://x.com/PalmerLuckey/status/2027500334999081294
It is an interesting point. What's the difference between this use license and others?
If the government thinks the terms of Anthropic are unacceptable, they can just stop using them, right? But why would you then retaliate and ban other companies from making business with Anthropic if they want to be a defense contractor? How do these requirements make Anthropic a supply chain risk that makes them unusable for use by other companies?
> If the government thinks the terms of Anthropic are unacceptable, they can just stop using them, right
That is what they are doing.
> why would you then [....] ban other companies from making business with Anthropic if they want to be a defense contractor
Because, if it shops with Anthropic code, the DoD becomes subject to the restrictions when they receive the contractor's product. Anthropic's limitation is on the use, not (just) on the product or distribution.
To stop using them requires making the suppliers still using them as well.
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It's perfectly reasonable for the US government to end the contract if they no longer like the terms they agreed to (assuming the contract does in fact let them); it's not reasonable to destroy the counterparty to the contract in retaliation. The line "I am altering the deal; pray I don't alter it further" is literally spoken by Darth Vader, the most comic-book of comic-book villains.
Then the government should end their contract with Anthropic. The terms of the contract were clear.
Designating them a supply chain risk is unprecedented authoritarian strong-arming.
What a dork.
This is nice rhetoric but ignores the fact that the elected officials are bought out by other billionaires. The US is an oligarchy in a republics clothing.
This is good news all around, especially with OpenAI's statement siding with Anthropic.
Anthropic folks: I've been a bit salty on HN about bugs in Claude Code, but I feeling pretty warm and fuzzy about sending you my cash this month.
So Anthropic cannot make deals with the US government, because they are a supply-chain risk. They can also not make deals with European governments, because Anthropic is based in the US.
So it would make sense now for Anthropic to move outside the US, e.g. to Europe or Canada to at least be able to make deals with European governments.
I already loved Claude models, and this makes me even more eager to use them.
This is the most unhinged thing yet, after all the previous unhinged things.
In theory, this is why there should be competition in industry, because it removes the capability of a single large actor to be able to control the government's access to things.
Oddly, though, it seems like that should solve this problem as well. I'm not sure why the Department of Defense insists on Anthropic's models in particular; one would think one of the other players, at the very least least xAI, would be willing to step in and provide the capability Anthropic doesn't want to provide.
Last I heard, it's still legally called the Department of Defense.
But anyway, I guess the question is, will any other big AI companies stand with them? It's what needs to happen, but I am not hopeful.
The whole thing is fascinating. In my heart of heart, in principle, I want models to be essentially unrestricted, but I still find it somewhat problematic that government thinks it can say: you will make adjust your product to match our exact expectations even if you don't sign an updated contract with us. Odd stuff. I know they are trotting out War powers, but.. well.. we are not at war ( at least not yet or at least not yet officially declared.. ).
Help me understand the line Anthropic is drawing in the sand?
Don't get me wrong i'm glad they are unwilling to do certain things...
but to me it also seems a little ironic that Anthropic literally is partnered with Palantir which already mass surveills the US. Claude was used in the operation in Venezuala.
Their line not to cross seems absurdly thin?
Or there is something mega scary thats already much worse they were asked to do which we dont know about I guess.
I don't understand the line as well. So its no to domestic surveillance, but all other countries are a fair game? How is this an ethical stand? What sort of mental gymnastics allow Anthropic to classify this as an ethical stance?
To me all of this reads like "we don't trust our models enough yet to not cause domestic havoc, all other is fine, and we don't trust our models enough yet to not vibe-kill people". Key word being "yet".
"vibe-kill" made me laugh then feel sick
The whole reason this is happening is because Anthropic looked into how Claude was used in the Maduro op and found it to violate the negotiated terms of service.
Their hard lines are:
- no usage of AI to commit murder WITHOUT a human in the loop
- no usage of AI for domestic mass surveillance
So... this would be fine with them?
Claude: "Are you sure you want me to commit murder?"
User: "Yes"
Or do you mean Human presses button:
Claude: "Do you to commit murder? If so press the button."
User: "I pressed the button"
Claude: "Great! Now lets summarize what we did."
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Insanely stupid and petty decision. I just left voicemails for all my members of Congress urging them to fight back. I hope the DoW loses this one.
It seems like some comments here are from merged threads AND front-dated?
Makes for very confusing reading when comments from "1 hour ago" are actually on preceding events from earlier, before TFA news (announcement of designation).
mods: Especially in sensitive and rapidly developing situations like this, please don't mess with timestamps of comments. It's effectively revisionism.
Google and Amazon both partner with them and sell to the US Government... so does this mean they can't run on Google or AWS infrastructure?
So the government said, We need y’all to flip on the Minority Report and the Terminator modes or we’ll put you out of business… cool
I'm convinced the only possible good end game here is if this leads to a showdown where GenAI is just made illegal full stop.
Neither side wants that so seems pretty unlikely
In what fantasy world?
A world where I can prompt my local ASI to put a stop to it.
https://xcancel.com/AlexBlechman/status/1457842724128833538
Government: We will destroy any company that refuses to create the Torment Nexus
Its one thing to say "we cannot abide by these terms, so let's part ways", and its another entirely to respond this drastically. The Trump administration will look back on this decision as the most consequential in their efforts to win the 2026 midterms and Republican efforts in 2028. This is a $400B+ American company that has significant partial ownership from Amazon, Google, and other private equity sources; they just made serious enemies in SV, many of whom supported Trump in his 2024 election victory.
This is a pimple on the arse of said consequence. It's one tiny thing in a chain of many bigger things.
It's magnified because it's right now, but this won't affect midterm results barely a whisker compared to many other daily headlines.
There are no serious enemies to this administration in SV and I can't see this changing that. SV has bent the knee exactly like Anthropic didn't. They're not going to stand up because of this, they've proven they don't have those muscles.
OTOH it could amplify their base: “Big Tech refusing to work with us on National Security matters!” The base will never hear what/where the red line was drawn, just that Some Company in California (liberal/bad) is being Woke and Political.
Their base doesn't have any clue who Anthropic is, and never will. Their base is barely paying attention to what they do anymore.
The most horrifying thing is this means that they’re trying to spy en masse on all US citizens.
What's with the Republicans. Do they want a strong or a weak government? I can't tell anymore.
I don't think it's ever been about strong or weak, or at least I don't think that's where the differentiation is. You always want 'strong' government, committed to the things it says it's committed to.
It's more been about the size of the government; that it should do a minimal amount of control (and do it well), but leave a lot of things for "the market to decide".
Having said all that, I think this issue is just tangential to any big/small government ideology. This is a hissy fit about a defence contractor sticking to their agreement where the DoD want to change the agreement in a way that goes against the contractors Mission Statement and/or the US Constitution itself.
The old ideology of the Republicans doesn't mean anything here. This administration is purely about 'give me what I want, now!'.
And it's whims change with the breeze. Do not look for consistency here.
Once the democrats are in the oval office again can they label palantir a supply chain risk? Is there anything stopping the administations red or blue from shutting down any company that doens't agree 100% with them politically
Hey Anthropic, Europe welcome you!
USA is trying to use IA for something so evil that a for profit company is risking to loose a lot of money and even close. Nobody are allowed to know what these evil things are.
And people here are debating legalese...
I can't seem to find what being designated a "Supply-Chain Risk to National Security" implies from a legal standpoint. From what I can find, it doesn't seem to be a formal legal status. Curious if anyone knows more.
Basically, if you are a federal contractor, the designation means the DoD can force you to certify that Anthropic tech is not used in the fulfillment of your government work. Because it's just a DoD designation, and an executive order and not added to the NDAA, you can still use Claude for non-government (federal) touching work.
So using Claude Code to write software for the DoD is now a no go, you'd be in breach of procurement directives now.
If they go as far as to convince congress to add Anthropic to the NDAA, that would be a nationwide ban like Huawei making it illegal for any federal contractor to use the tech anywhere in their business.
But for now, even fed contractors can still use Claude in their business, just not directly for government work.
That doesn’t seem to match up with the original tweet though - it sounds a heck of a lot stronger:
> Effective immediately, no contractor, supplier, or partner that does business with the United States military may conduct any commercial activity with Anthropic
Emphasis mine.
And I’m looking at news organizations that presumably have staffs of legal analysts pouring over this stuff, and they also seem to be saying that it can’t be any commercial activity:
> The label means that no contractor or supplier that works with the military can do business with Anthropic.
https://www.nytimes.com/2026/02/27/us/politics/anthropic-mil...
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Working with the government is typically a huge pain in the ass unless you have a lot of friends on the inside. It's not hard to do the math when you you dealing with a government whose acting incredibly oppositional.
Wild that not wanting to support fully autonomous weaponry…yet…is the sane take here.
This is getting silly guys. All on the same team. Need to have a c.t.j. meeting.
I had the co-founder of Levels and current head of the US Treasury Sam Corcos reach out to me a few weeks ago for a job. I was initially kind of excited because I had really wanted to work for the Treasury a couple years ago, so I took the phone call with him.
He called me and he seemed like a nice enough guy, but I realized that he's one of the DOGE/Elon acolytes and he started talking about how he's "fixing" the Treasury and that every engineer is apparently supposed to use Claude for everything.
It would have been a considerable pay downgrade which wouldn't necessarily be a dealbreaker but being managed by DOGE would be, but mostly relevant is that I found it kind of horrifying that we're basically trusting the entire world's bank to be "fixed" with Claude Code. It's one thing when your ad platform or something is broken, but if Claude fucks something up in the Treasury that could literally start a war. We're going to "fix" all the code with a bunch of mediocre code that literally no one on earth actually understands and that realistically no one is auditing [1].
If they're going to "fix" all the Treasury code with stuff generated by Claude, I'm not sure they will have a choice but to stick with it, because very it seems very likely to me that it will be incomprehensible to anything but Claude.
[1] Be honest, a lot of AI generated code is not actually being reviewed by humans; I suspect that a lot of the AI code that's being merged is still basically being rubber-stamped.
don't worry
it won't be the world's bank for very long
There's an awful lot of momentum with the USD being the world currency. Even if it eventually declines I think it might take decades, if the British pound is anything to go by.
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So I'm very curious, assuming this happens and is later found to be an illegal order - will Anthropic have rights to redress (ie: monetary compensation)?
Because that could be absolutely staggering.
You would have to believe that an AI model would be 100% correct in its decision to discern an enemy from a civilian. So an intelligent lunatic, or an uninformed lunatic politician
At what point will military and politicians be deemed too great of a risk for humanity and be put in jail?
https://xcancel.com/secwar/status/2027507717469049070
Don't worry, they will be seized by the government soon. Sounds crazy right. Not that far from the headline though, that would sound insane a mere 18 months ago.
It'll get cleared up.
TACO
I read the tweet and honestly thought I was reading parody.
It almost is parody that a former Fox News host is the SECRETARY OF WAR.
The next question, what person wants to send all their personal questions to whichever AI lab does help the government do domestic surveillance
This is just an authoritarian state, wanting to use AI to implement something almost certainly anti freedom. We have to be honest about that.
"strong-arm the United States military into submission - a cowardly act"
How going against the most powerful army on Earth is coward?
The US is such a shit show. Personally I hope this doesn't affect Anthropic's growth and development because I quite enjoy using their products and see them evolve.
Look folks when he's (trump) that stuck on stupid, he's right and you're wrong. Class it up, people! Class it up!
If anything, isn’t this admitting that the government thinks Anthropic has better technology than OpenAI, Grok, etc?
Maybe, but nowadays I wouldn’t put much money on what the US government thinks.
I am directing my Department of Peace to designate Anthropic as a Supply-Chain Risk to Fascism.
I have just purchased a chunk of extra usage credit. I encourage my peers to do the same. Let's send a message to those that work forces.
Will be interesting to see how quickly it becomes clear that most of Anthropic's competitors are stealing from them.
Since google aws have contracts with the governor, can they make cloud providers stop providing services to anthropic?
They should wear it like a badge of honor
Sounds very much like "Department of War" designating humans a supply-chain risk.
Anthropic should become an actual supply chain risk and move its HQ to China now, lol.
Good, anthropic should sell there services to China introduce the “security risk” to China.
Sounds like I should upgrade to the $100 subscription in support on Anthropic.
Something is clearly unraveling.
it's funny that this is being framed as big tech vs us government, when in reality this move is probably strongly influenced by the desire to help openai and other big tech against anthropic
Why does this feel like a Facebook post from the person who got broken up with
The funny thing about stupid people, they do stupid things all the time...
> Anthropic’s stance is fundamentally incompatible with American principles.
I don't think that Secretary Hegseth is qualified to speak on American principles.
Cheating on multiple spouses[1], being an active alcoholic, and being accused of multiple sexual assaults and paying off the accusers[3] is fundamentally incompatible with being a Secretary of Defense and a good leader.
Also, this violates freedom of speech and will probably get shot down in the courts.
1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Hegseth#Marriages
2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Hegseth plus multiple recent media pieces
3. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Hegseth#Abuse_and_sexual_...
In all this commotion I've completely forgotten that Anthropic dropped their safety pledge three days ago.
Grok in US gov in 3 2 1…
Already there 'February 23, 2026: The Pentagon confirmed a new agreement allowing Grok use in classified systems. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth announced it would go live soon on unclassified and classified networks, alongside other models, as part of feeding military data into AI.'
This will mean Grok becomes the defacto US Gov AI provider.
> it would go live soon on unclassified and classified networks, alongside other models, as part of feeding military data into AI.
Absolutely insane.
Stupid situation, but a badge of honour awarded to Anthropic.
Why are so many adopting this name for what is by law, by the American people, called the Department of Defense? The name change pertains directly to the Anthropic issue, which is the function of the government and department, the power of the American people to govern themselves, and the role of the president relative to the soveriegn American people.
Well put and it bothers me too. It seems to be another case of Orwellian manipulation, i.e. an expression of power through language, functioning as a litmus test of the speaker's loyalty. Serious publications are not going along with it. More craven or (here) thoughtless ones are falling in line.
I mean the original name switch was much more "Orwellian manipulation" if anything changing it back to war is undoing the bullshit implications that everything it does is defense.
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Because it sounds a lot cooler.
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The real question: did he have Claude write this for him?
Maybe time for Anthropic to leave the US. Come to Australia :)
What does this mean for Bun (recently acquired by Anthropic)?
Can we all take a big step back and just ask why the DoD wants to use a fundamentally unreliable technology to guide deadly weapons?
They don't. They want to punish a company for expressing values that introduce friction to the whims of the current administration.
No, stop, I understand the politics here, but I’m asking about the technical fundamentals.
LLMs produce output of unknowable and unpredictable accuracy, and as far as we know, this is a mathematically unsolvable problem. This shit should not be within 1000 miles of a weapons system. Why are we even talking about this?
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The same reason why they used a Signal chat group for discussing matters of national security.
this all seems like to me as a trumped up (lol) excuse for a government bailout of openai assuming openai steps in and fills anthropics shoes.
Wonder what other countries are doing in this situation
Unserious people, in the most serious of positions.
So the DOW is using it till the mid term elections?
> Anthropic's two hard lines:
> 1. No mass domestic surveillance of Americans
> 2. No fully autonomous weapons (kill decisions without a human in the loop)
Surveillance takes place with or without Anthropic, so depriving DoW of Anthropic models doesn't accomplish much (although it does annoy Hegseth).
The models currently used in kill decisions are probably primitive image recognition (using neural nets). Consider a drone circling an area distinguishing civilians from soldiers (by looking for presence of rifles/rpgs).
New AI models can improve identification, thus reducing false positives and increasing the number of actual adversaries targeted. Even though it sounds bad, it could have good outcomes.
I thought Anthropic's take on #2 was they don't think the model's good enough yet?
But compared to what - if Anthropic's models aren't perfect but still better than existing (old school) models, it's understandable DoW still wants to use them (since they're potentially the best available, despite imperfections). I think Hegseth is saying to Anthropic: "that's our call, not yours".
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> You sound like an unhinged person if you in plain words describe what’s happening, but the Trump admin demanded Anthropic’s AI be able to kill things for it without human approval and also do mass surveillance.
> Anthropic said no, and now the admin is trying to destroy the company in retaliation.
From https://bsky.app/profile/bbkogan.bsky.social/post/3mfuuprph5...
Confirmed: we're living in hell.
This whole tweet seems very childish.
This is the inflection point for the beginning of culling of the intellectual class. If not physically, atleast economically and socially.
A few arrests and a few in detention centres, will be enough to make them fold and grovel.
They are now categorised as "radical left" and woke.
The elections will be controlled to "prevent the radical left take over of the greatest country on the planet".
edit : The stage is also being set for total media control. My prediction is that the next target will be Google, specifically Youtube. You should start seeing talks about how the radical left is inflitrated youtube.
The 20th century is finally over...
Batshit situation, respectable position from Dario throughout.
But there's some irony in this happening to Anthropic after all the constant hawkish fearmongering about the evil Chinese (and open source AI sentiment too).
This is only the first year of this fascist government, and I believe the first powerful company that is taking a stance? Meta, Apple, etc. have all bent the knee right?
Apple not just bent the knee, but also presented a golden plaque to go along with it. Yuck
A risk of what?
Good. At least now I don't have to worry that my vibe-coded, unreviewed checkout button is accidentally going to hallucinate the command that blows up a kindergarten in Yemen.
Fuck it, I am buying a Max Pro subscription just because of this.
The US Government is such a bunch of clowns - it's hard to take their nonsense seriously... well except that their stupid policies kill people...
>Effective immediately, no contractor, supplier, or partner that does business with the United States military may conduct any commercial activity with Anthropic.
Nevermind Claude, does that mean Anthropic's offices can't use a power company if that same company happens to supply electricity to a US military base? What about the water, garbage disposal, janitorial services? Fedex? Credit card payments? Insurance companies? Law firms? All the normal boring stuff Anthropic needs that any other business needs.
This is a corporate death penalty. Or corporate internal exile or something, I don't know of a good analogy.
OpenAI came out just last night or today claiming they would hold the same line as Anthropic. Makes me think both sides knew Elon had already won the contract.
Stop calling it the Department of War, it's not the official name of that agency.
Department of War is a teenage boy's idea of "manly" and "cool". Same with X. These juvenile idiocrats will be laughed at by children in the future studying history. "Seriously? How dumb were these people in the 21st century."
Bluster followed by a "we can't do it now but we will... soon". Whoever has the best model can do what they please you'll see. I work with these things daily as an engineer (been doing this shit for 25 years and wow it's like mana from heaven these days). Believe me no one is going to screw with themselves by not using the best one and right now Anthropic has it.
- Co-authored by Claude
Old enough to remember when the likes of A16Z said they had to support Trump because the Biden admin was being too meddlesome in the tech industry.
Sometimes it pays to think even two steps ahead of your most immediate thought…
Trump's associated "Truth" ("Truth Social" is the name of his risible fake-Twitter and they call Tweets, "Truths" there) that preceded this:
https://www.trumpstruth.org/statuses/36981
Don't worry, this is an archive/mirroring site for his account, not the actual TS site.
I'd comment on how wackadoo this all is, but, 1) that applies to almost everything these days, and 2) the post's right there, see for yourself.
I really don't follow USA-politics besides the occasional hn-thread, random yt videos, and comments from friends...
With that said: what are the chances, in your opinion, that Donald wrote that himself?
To me it reads too coherent for there to be any chance he wrote or even dictated that.
I think odds are high a lot of these posts are by staffers. The posting volume is bananas, even granting that he spends a lot more time personally online and watching cable news et c. than any prior president, I don’t think there’s any way they’re all by him.
I do think a lot of the more hot-take type posts (often in response to stuff he’s watching on tv) are either actually him, or he’s dictating to an aide. These larger policy-type ones that he treats as quasi-executive-orders, I think are likely drafted by one or more of his cabinet-level folks, or others roughly as high up. That’s just my speculation based on reading the “tea leaves”, though.
As for official word, it waffles between “all of it’s him” and “oh not that one though, that racist video repost was a staffer who made a mistake”, so that’s little help in sussing out the truth (but I am rather certain they’re not all directly written and posted by him)
He doesn’t write any of his posts. A team of absolute degenerates does. Can you imagine that buffoon typing all of that out?
Presumably Trump will be returning his $90 million in lawsuit booty now that it's been decided you cannot say no to the government right? Heck he dodged the draft 5 times.
Such a dipshit administration. I hope California secedes from the union to protect our champions.
we are experiencing marketing at its best
I don't know if we should be terrified by Hegseth's response, or relieved that the government doesn't just shrug and lie over privately agreed upon terms.
I think an important point to consider is that the administration's demands for domestic deployment and automation of homicide are not so much due to a lack of technical ability or personnel resources to achieve sought-for military-strategic outcomes, but an unwillingness for anyone in the administration to take on the responsibility for those decisions.
If an employee of the government makes a decision that subsequently turns out to be very very unpopular, that unpopularity is sooner or later going to coalesce and land on them, and the more unpopular it turns out to be the less of a shield legal arguments about immunity or pardons will be because so many people are increasingly out of patience with a system they deem to be corrupt. Being able to offload the political, legal, and personal risks of extremely consequential decisions onto The Bad Computer System is the political equivalent of crack cocaine - you might know that the feeling of freedom and power it provides is wholly illusory, you might know that it's likely to ruin your own and many other lives, you might know that it's a disaster for the health of the body politic...but it also offers the possibility that you can have an absolute blast and get away with it.
My anecdotal experience of being around wealthy and powerful people over the years inclines me to think that not only do our social systems select in favor of people who take big risks for big rewards, but that virtually everyone in that class has a) done a lot of getting away with things legally speaking and b) enjoys using illegal drugs. Even if they've given up recreational drug taking or limit it to strictly defined times and places so as not to interfere with their business/personal success, they like thrills and have confidence about their ability to enjoy them without negative consequences. You need some of that risk-taking, high personal autonomy attitude if you aspire to be a mover and shaker as opposed to a leading figure in risk management or regulatory compliance.
Everyone enjoys the feeling of power without responsibility; it's a fundamental underpinning of games and many other kinds of recreation. Add in significant amounts of money and people think differently about risk, as in the topical case of the experienced Supreme Court litigator who turned out to have have a secret life as a high-stakes poker gambler and eventually started betting against the IRS while filing his taxes (https://www.politico.com/news/2026/02/25/supreme-court-litig...).
Now, if you're in the political-military sphere and you get your thrills by literally redrawing lines and relationships on the map of the world and deciding what the news on TV is going to be for the next day/week/month/year, and you get offered a tool that promises to give a significant edge over other players in this game but which also gives you a versatile and widely accepted excuse for avoiding consequences for the inevitable losing hands, there are massively compelling psychological incentives for using it. And correspondingly, there's going to be massive emotional disruption (and bad decision-making and behavior) if your supply is threatened. You might start labeling the people who are interfering with your good time as cognito-terrorists and telling all your friends and supporters that your formerly trustworthy supplier did you dirty...
I can't wait to read the transcript of the AUSA in front of a federal judge trying to explain threatening to declare a company a supply chain risk if the company doesn't supply things to the government.
I like how Grok managed to polish the t.. make the situation sound good.
https://x.com/grok/status/2027518650710700068
David Sacks
I'd at least, you know, pretend we had a top-secret amazing model. By airing all of this publicly, they've basically admitted that Claude is the best there is.
While I still think the GPT models are superior, I am very inclined to keep my Claude subscription because of this news. Even if Claude provides me with the occasional response out of left-field, I find that easier to live with than a world Anthropic is fighting to avoid.
An earlier post to a news article rather than to a tweet: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47186662
That news article doesn't mention the designation of Anthropic as a supply chain risk (it was published about 20 minutes before Hegseth's tweet)
Does anyone believe he's correct? That is, not lying? That is, abusing the office, violating his oath?
If we don't impeach for this, we might as well surrender to MAGA.
This is going to have two unintended consequences.
One, it’s going to fuck with the AI fundraising market. That includes for IPO. If Trump can do this to Anthropic, a Dem President will do it to xAI. We have no idea where the contagion stops.
Two, Anthropic will win in the long run. In corporate America. Overseas. And with consumers. And, I suspect, with investors.
> In corporate America
A lot of corporate America contracts for the military in some capacity (it's a giant piggy bank and if you jump through a few hoops you get to siphon money out of it, so of course they do) and assuming this Tweet is accurate (Jesus, what a world) this will also affect them.
IDK maybe they have corporate structures that avoid letting this kind of thing mess too badly with the parts of their company that don't have contact with the government, or maybe it'll only apply to specifically the work they do for the government, but otherwise I expect it'll be devastating for Anthropic's B2B effort.
> lot of corporate America contracts for the military in some capacity
And a lot does not, or does so through dedicated subsidiaries so they can work multinationally.
What percentage of their revenue comes from the government?
> If Trump can do this to Anthropic, a Dem President will do it to xAI. We have no idea where the contagion stops.
Will the next Democratic President do it to xAI? On what grounds?
The Biden admin negotiated a contract with a supplier with terms which are – to the best of my knowledge – rather unprecedented – do Pentagon contracts normally have terms like this, restricting the government's use of the supplied good or service? Do missile or plane contracts with Boeing or Lockheed Martin contain restrictions on what kind of operations that hardware will be used in? I don't think that's the norm. So the next administration tears up a contract made by the previous admin with unusual terms – nothing unexpected about that. The "hardball" of declaring them a "supply chain risk" is escalating this dispute to a never-before-seen level, but the underlying action of cancelling the contract isn't. I honestly suspect the "supply chain risk" aspect will be suspended by the courts, and/or heavily watered down in the implementation; but the act of cancelling the contract in itself seems legally airtight.
Next Democratic administration inherits a contract with xAI (and quite possibly OpenAI and/or Google too) – with presumably standard terms. I can totally understand the political desire for vengeance. But what's the actual legal justification for it? Facially, the current administration has a politically neutral justification for what they are doing, even if some suspect there is some deeper political motivation. Will the next Democratic administration have such a facial justification for doing the same to xAI?
Plus, Democrats always sell themselves on "we obey norms". They have the structural disadvantage that either they keep their word on that, and can't do the same things back, or they break their word, and risk losing the people who supported them based on that word.
> Will the next Democratic President do it to xAI? On what grounds?
Elon being affiliated with Trump. About the strength of logic that makes Dario woke.
> don't think that's the norm
Norms are different from law or contract. And yes, lots of service providers limit where their civilians can be deployed and under what circumstances.
> can totally understand the political desire for vengeance. But what's the actual legal justification for it?
President has core Constitutional control of the military.
> Democrats always sell themselves on "we obey norms"
That hasn't worked. The American electorate is looking for change. And up-and-coming Democrats are picking up on that.
> risk losing the people who supported them based on that word
The Democrat base absolutely wants vengeance. It doesn't play in swing states. But it probably also doesn't hurt. These are court politics, at the end of the day.
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Finally silicon valley is being shown who they sucked up to.
How 'bout that government meddling in the free market, eh?
Every conservative needs to do some very deep, very serious soul-searching. As for me, as a hyper-progressive, I'm drawing up proposals for nationalizing real estate developers in order to force them to build new houses to sell below cost.
A level up, this is only the beginning of the political headwinds for AI. There will be a lot more, especially if constituencies begin to get displaced. I don’t think “job loss” will really occur, at least not in a dramatic way overnight. But I do believe there will be both aggressive regulation and very aggressive taxation of this technology in the near/mid-term.
We can actually get a glimpse of how AI might wipe out humanity here.
Model collapse making models identify everyone as a potential threat who needs to be eliminated.
Companies should have a right to refuse such requests on moral grounds though.
This stance is vindictive. Just don't use Claude in the military. Extending it to all government agencies is not right. They do great work. Can't deny that.
I've had issues with Anthropic since the beginning. I never trusted them. Whoever did, might have some problems.
Cue xAI.
And here’s the irony: Musk, who claimed only he is virtuous enough to defend us from AI, who insisted he always wanted model labs to be non profit and research focused, will now bring his for profit commercial entity into service to aid in mass domestic censorship and fully autonomous weapons of war.
In fact it won’t surprise me further if NVIDIA is strong armed into providing preference to xAI, in the interest of security, or if the government directly funds capital investments.
Anthropic saves some dignify and they’re the losers today, but we are the losers tomorrow.
Theo's got a good overview
https://youtu.be/MWFyApldYDA?si=yskCcx2hY4Wjkgw8
I am reminded of bcantrill's legendary quote:
> You don’t anthropomorphize your lawnmower, the lawnmower just mows the lawn - you stick your hand in there and it’ll chop it off, the end.
Except this is like two lawnmowers going at it, which would be a sight to behold indeed.
Pete Kegseth is unhinged. I’m siding with Anthropic here
AI crash here we come
it's so funny to me that anthropic was created specifically using the virtue signaling line of defensive safety against bad actors (ie the woo woo bad guy of chinese dictatorship), yet the real danger was always coming from inside the house - your own government being an absolute evil clusterfuck.
The (almost) top comment is interesting. Sorry to quote llms but:
>@grok what type of political system is most often associated with the government forcing private companies to change their policies and do whatever the government wants?
>Fascism, via its corporatist model: private ownership remains, but the state directs industry to serve national goals...
Trump's behaviour seems fairly normal fascism but thankfully the rest of the US system seems unenthusiastic.
Ironic. This makes me want to quit ChatGPT in favor of Claude because fuck this administration.
Hegseth's had a busy week: trying to kill Anthropic, attending the State of the Union, fighting Scouting America, and his regularly scheduled efforts to shame fatties & trans kids... Unlike so many in the orange one's inner circle who are just incompetent (say, Kash Patel for one), this dude is both incompentent a very bad, bad person.
Pathetic posturing. Also, does this read ECACTLY like an Andor script to anybody else!?
Can we get a list of companies with this designation so I can migrate my subscriptions to them?
"I am altering the deal. Pray, I do not alter it further." - a scary evil dude.
let's see...
> Populist nationalism + “infallible” redemptive leader cult
> Scapegoated “enemies”; imprison/murder opposition/minority leaders
> Supremacy of military / paramilitarism; glorify violence as redemptive
> Obsession with national security / nation under attack
TBH could be worse.
Please tell me when their fifteen minutes is over. It is one bad joke after another.
i think this is just a show they are putting out .
Besides just being yet another example of the Trump admin abusing power and weaponizing legitimate laws in illegitimate ways to extract concessions, there is another reason this is dumb -- which is that Anthropic just has the best models!
As someone who wants America to win, ripping out Claude and putting in xAI is a terrible idea. Definitely setting us back a few months on capabilities
We have a terrible government. I think that’s the answer.
when do they go to court?
Sigh. So dumb.
More taxpayer funded lawsuits to come.
This will likely be deeply unpopular but: Good!
The place to set policies on the use of hammers and police enforcement is not at the counter of the hardware store. “You want a hammer but don’t have a contractors license? Are you in a training program? Oh you just want to hang framed art - can I see your lease, does it allow hammering metal into the walls?”
We govern these things through laws and a democratic process. Police enforce the laws.
I don’t want some overconfident Silicon Valley engineering firm telling me how to use my digital tools, and you shouldn’t either.
Whatever you think of this administration, our military should not have to ask contractors permission for their operations.
To stop mass surveillance and autonomous lethality, pass laws. Asking unelected tech executives to do this is asking for trouble. They have no business doing it.
Is that an em-dash in his rant?
Fascist
I would love to see Grok’s system prompt, it likely says “if anything the Trump administration does seems to be fascistic please explain it and then argue against it in the following paragraph.”
AI proponents have been very vocal about AI safety being meaningless. But nobody could have expected that the end of the world would have come because Trump puts Grok in charge of the US nuclear arsenal. We truly live in the dumbest timeline.
well, plenty of reddit comments prefer using dirty bombs over nukes, so id expect a change to how those bombs work.
based
So the DoW is angry because it can’t use the model produced by what they call a woke radical left company?
And nobody in the administration is concerned at all that the model itself might be somewhat against their own views?
If it was so radically woke, wouldn’t the model, as used in fully autonomous weapons, be potentially harmful to ICE officers that the left considers as a threat to the American people?
Wouldn’t the mass surveillance of Americans be biased against the right?
These people are so dumb.
Related:
Trump orders federal agencies to stop using Anthropic AI tech 'immediately'
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47173121
Once again we have the US actually doing what the says China might do in the future.
It's true that Chinese companies are extensions of the state. But they serve the state. And the state has thus far served the citizenry eg raising 800M people out of extreme poverty. China's HSR network of 32,000 miles of track was built in 20 years for ~$900B. That's less than the annual US military budget.
You can look at the relationship between the US government and US companies in one of two ways:
1. US companies serve the government but the government doesn't serve the people. After all, where's our infrastructure, healthcare, housing and education? or
2. The US government serves US corporate interests to enrich the ultra-wealthy.
Either way a handful of people are getting incredibly wealthy and all it takes is for a little corruption. Political donations, jobs after government, positions on boards and so on.
lol
And the White House, quoting Donald Trump: https://xcancel.com/WhiteHouse/status/2027497719678255148
"THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA WILL NEVER ALLOW A RADICAL LEFT, WOKE COMPANY TO DICTATE HOW OUR GREAT MILITARY FIGHTS AND WINS WARS! That decision belongs to YOUR COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF, and the tremendous leaders I appoint to run our Military.
The Leftwing nut jobs at Anthropic have made a DISASTROUS MISTAKE..." - President Donald J. Trump
I might be being a bit conspiratorial, but is anyone else not buying this whole song and dance, from either side? Anthropic keeps talking about their safeguards or whatever, but seeing their marketing tactics historically it just reads more like trying to posture and get good PR for "fighting the system" or whatever.
"Our AI is so advanced and dangerous Trump has to beg us to remove our safeguards, and we valiantly said no! Oh but we were already spying on people and letting them use our AIs in weapons as long as a human was there to tick a checkbox"
I just don't buy anything spewing out of the mouths of these sociopathic billionaires, and I trust the current ponzi schemers in the US gov't even less.
Especially given how much astroturfing Anthropic loves doing, and the countless comments in this thread saying things like "Way to go Amodei, I'm subbing to your 200 dollar a month plan now forever!!11".
One thing I know for sure is that these AI degenerates have made me a lot more paranoid of anything I read online.
Kudos to anthropic for standing up for their principles. Let's remember all the silicon valley leaders who embraced fascism without even needing to be pressured. We need more billionaires with backbones.
No surprise here. All government actions are now in the Trump mafia boss style.
“You won’t let us use your product unrestricted for military applications? Fuck you, we’re going to stop using it for anything at all across the entire federal government, even if not remotely related to military.”
Hey Hegseth ...
....................../´¯/)
....................,/¯../
.................../..../
............./´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸
........../'/.../..../......./¨¯\
........('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...')
.........\.................'...../
..........''...\.......... _.·´
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This makes no sense. Do you vote based on principles and policy or do you vote based on the behavior of people who have nothing to do with government?
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I don't think I'll ever be able to understand how someone can read what Trump posts and think "Yeah, that's a guy I want as my President."
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ah yes, fascism
Cancel culture and derangement syndrome. This admin is garbage.
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tl;dr: All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state.
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Defense contracting makes you rich and lazy. In the long run it is rare to see companies get sucked into defense contracting and stay relevant/on the cutting edge. We look at fighters and warships and think WOW! But the reality is that they are pretty far behind where they would actually be if there was a civilian purpose to them that mattered.
It’s not the defense contracts to Anthropic that hurt. It’s not being able to do business with anyone who does business with the DOD that hurts.
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Unfortunately their models suck, though. The difference between the best Grok model and Opus 4.6 is night and day, and not only for coding, but entirely across-the-board.
What does xAI's future as a defense contractor AI company look like after the 2028 presidential election?
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I don’t know what will happen, but it still could work out to benefit Anthropic. I believe the public sentiment is OVERWHELMINGLY with Anthropic on this one. Both their stance and standing up to Trump bullies.
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This comment does not hold up to scrutiny.
Appealing to the pragmatic and the "game theory" of complying with authoritarian rule that you don't have power over - because the other party that you don't have any power over will benefit from it - is a zero-sum argument.
Procurement decisions are not authoritarian rule. A government agency deciding that a vendor doesn't meet its operational requirements and setting a timeline to transition off that vendor is one of the most ordinary functions of institutional management. Every organization, public or private, does this. Authoritarian rule involves the coercive suppression of rights or autonomy. Choosing not to renew a contract with a provider who has voluntarily excluded itself from your use case is the opposite of coercion; it's respecting that provider's choice and acting accordingly.
The "zero-sum" label is equally off-base. Zero-sum describes a situation where one party's gain is necessarily another's loss, and that is precisely the nature of military capability competition. If an adversary fields unrestricted AI systems and you field restricted ones, the gap is real and the consequences are asymmetric. You don't have to like that reality, but calling it a zero-sum argument as though it's a rhetorical trick misidentifies what's actually a structural condition. The term you seem to be reaching for is something closer to "fear-based reasoning" or "false dilemma," but neither of those applies cleanly here either, because the competitive dynamic being described is well-documented and not hypothetical.
If there's a genuine objection to be made, and there may well be, it has to engage with the specifics: whether the restrictions in question actually matter operationally, whether the transition plan is proportionate, whether the policy creates worse risks than it solves. That's where the real debate is.
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Hegseth gets so belligerent when he's hammered.
As best I can tell, his hard-drinking era ended many years before he entered the cabinet. But this does feel like a pretty impulsive decision, and there's some ambiguity over whether this statement was approved by the WH, or whether this was just the SECDEF taking it to the next level to look super loyal and badass. This ambiguity gives the WH room to walk it back in the coming weeks, depending on how things evolve.
I can honestly understand both positions. The U.S. military must be able to use technology as it sees fit; it cannot allow private companies to control the use of military equipment. Anthropic must prevent a future where AIs make autonomous life and death decisions without humans in the loop. Living in that future is completely untenable.
What I don’t understand is why the two parties couldn’t reach agreement. Surely autonomous murderous robots is something U.S. government has interest in preventing.
> it cannot allow private companies to control the use of military equipment.
The big difference here is that Claude is not military equipment. It's a public, general purpose model. The terms of use/service were part of the contract with the DoD. The DoD is trying to forcibly alter the deal, and Anthropic is 100% in the clear to say "no, a contract is a contract, suck it up buttercup."
We aren't talking about Lockheed here making an F-35 and then telling the DoD "oh, but you can't use our very obvious weapon to kill people."
> Surely autonomous murderous robots is something U.S. government has interest in preventing
After this fiasco, obviously not. It's quite clear the DoD most definitely wants autonomous murder robots, and also wants mass domestic surveillance.
So what your saying is it should be removed from the military supply chain?
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Because the current government wants unquestioning obedience, not a discussion (assuming they were capable of that level of nuanced thought in the first place). The position of this government is "just do what I say or I will hit you with the first stick that comes to hand".
A vendor doesn't want to do something you need, you find another vendor (there are others).
This is just petty.
If the government doesn't want to sign a deal on Anthropic's terms, they can just not sign the deal. Abusing their powers to try to kill Anthropic's ability to do business with other companies is 10000% bullshit.
> What I don’t understand is why the two parties couldn’t reach agreement. Surely autonomous murderous robots is something U.S. government has interest in preventing.
Consider the government. It’s Hegseth making this decision, and he considers the US military’s adherence to law to be a risk to his plans.
I can see both sides as pertains to Trump's initial decision to stop working with Claude, but now, this over-the-top "supply chain risk" designation from Hegseth is something else. It's hard to square it with any real principle that I've seen the admin articulate.
> What I don’t understand is why the two parties couldn’t reach agreement.
Someday we'll have to elect a POTUS who is known for his negotiation and dealmaking skills.
I am fine with this. If you are a defense contractor, you are a defense contractor, and you follow the military needs that you government believes are necessary - or you stop being a defense contractor.
I wouldn't want a bullet manufacturer to hold back on my government based on their own internal sense of ethics (whether I agreed with it or not, it's not their place)
You're fine with a company being designated a supply chain risk, a designation heretofore used exclusively for foreign adversaries and usually a death knell for most companies, because the government wants to break a negotiated terms of service and contract that they already accepted?
The fuck?
Everyone is getting wrapped around the axel here but this is about the big picture, not the specifics. A private company should not have the ability to dictate how its technology is used by the government. If they can’t agree to that, then don’t sell your technology to the government. Personally, I don’t want to be spied on by the government with it (I don’t think their tech does that) but I also don’t want Anthropic having operational control over a mission.
That's exactly what is happening... Anthropic are choosing not to sell their technology to the government. I'm not sure what you're suggesting otherwise here.