Comment by whearyou
19 hours ago
What are the chances that HN is getting astroturfed these days? Are mods strict about it?
I lots of relatively new accounts coming with what seems to me extreme, but altogether pop-culture acceptable opinions
19 hours ago
What are the chances that HN is getting astroturfed these days? Are mods strict about it?
I lots of relatively new accounts coming with what seems to me extreme, but altogether pop-culture acceptable opinions
I think this is probably happening, but also there are just a ton of actual Zionists and Israelis in the tech industry. Unfortunately they visit this site regularly and police it against honest reporting about their crimes.
> Unfortunately they visit this site regularly and police it against honest reporting about their crimes.
I think that's called "disagreeing".
That would suggest they respond to claims with counter arguments, as opposed to what they really do which is flag everything they don’t want people to see
Today we call that misinformation. Which of course should be totally illegal and in no way protected by free speech.
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Luckily you don’t get to regulate who can participate in public discourse
Do keep in mind that basically every single Israeli goes through military training, which includes training in psychological counter-warfare (hasbara). Even the 'cool' Israelis you know in real life are spies at the beckon-and-call of Israel 24/7.
What I'm trying to say is that this is an intentional part of their strategy. They know what they're doing.
They probably have a small detachment assigned to every popular-ish website. For the long tail, they have bot farms.
What does Zionist actually mean when Israel as a Jewish State has existed for 77 years and seems likely to exist for at least as long. I'm genuinely asking here. People use the word all the time and I just don't understand what they are trying to say.
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They don’t treat Israeli* women like a second class citizen.
They’re totally fine treating gentile women, men and children as cattle. Slaughtered and imprisoned at will.
Not wanting to visit a country is not moral justification for killing its people (including women and even grade school girls).
feels like you're equating antisemitism with disliking israel's policies, friend.
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> There's no muslim country I ever want to visit.
Your loss.
I used to report quite a number of political/ideological-only accounts to mods through email. They're explicitly against the single purpose account rule. They usually got banned or at least warned.
Over the past year or two I reported a number of accounts that are basically pro-Israel-only, they post a ton of comments to any Israel-related thread and either nothing else or very little of anything else. Mods refuse to ban or even warn them, apparently because emotions run high, there are too many of them and there's priority in punishing the most egregious content so relatively mild ones get a pass, and if mods are being accused of being-antisemitic and they ban a bunch of these they would reinforce the image, etc. These are from memory and not exact quotes.
I don't buy it, and I've stopped reporting things to mods. (To be abundantly clear, anti-Israel-only accounts should 100% be banned too, but at least I haven't noticed as many as them. Any other kind of politics-only account should be purged too if the rules are to be believed.)
100%. Especially on topics involving countries with vast online propaganda operations.
Not necessarily I see these green handles that just seem to pop up out of nowhere and they always have characteristically triggering/cynical tone to them, which usually triggers some type of reaction
Could be that these are being farmed but at a state level it might be easier to outright purchase aged accounts
Your account, while 10 years old, only has comments from the past year. It is becoming very hard to tell what accounts are real and which are fake. Social proof of account activity pre-llm (usable) could be a very important thing in the future.
> Social proof of account activity pre-llm (usable) could be a very important thing in the future.
It's already common practice to buy aged accounts with good reputations, so even that doesn't mean much.
HN doesnt have any defense against it, and the userbase is small enough that it would be highly effective.
What are the chances that HN is getting astroturfed these days?
Happens all day every day. There are many AI agents starting discussions and replying to comments. This is how The Crappening started on 4chan. Some of them are just future grifters. Some are training AI (I have replied to a few for fun). Some are propaganda bots. Those running the bots will reply with something equiv to Errrm Proof?? when called out. Without root I can not empirically prove it and the botters know that.
I predict about 2 years before the site will have more AI noise than real people. I have no idea what can be done about it aside from tracking the bots and reporting them via email to Daniel and I don't know what he could or would do. HN has always been very hands off which is mostly good but not for this scenario. If nothing is done it will just be bots grifting and AstroTurfing one another to the benefit of Google SEO and most of the humans would eventually go elsewhere with exception of some die-hards that refuse to recognize the situation.
Anonymous internet forums will very likely die out if inference gets another order of magnitude cheaper.
The only solutions are (1) private forums, (2) strict verification or maybe (3) some sort of "web of trust" thing, if someone manages to make it user friendly and not suck.
I agree and my bet is on private and semi-private (invite only) forums making a come back. It is so much easier nowadays with so many Ansible playbooks and Dockerfiles to automate things.
Maybe this comment is also AI.
Maybe this comment is also AI.
My nickname on here would at least suggest so. I think Grok is the closest option since they were working on making a snarky insulting version of their bot. Tame that down a bit and one could get the personality of Bender. [1]
[1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPNGFC7-t68 [video][16s]
we need to start a paywalled private HN forum
we need to start a paywalled private HN forum
In my opinion it would be mostly a ghost town if it requires money for something that was free. It would probably have to be more like a n invite-only semi-private forum. An example would be lobsters. [1] Not sayin' that's perfect, just an example. One can always try it and see what comes of it.
[1] - https://lobste.rs/
I've seen lots of suspiciously new accounts hoping into these conversations. Saying questionable things.
With things like Openclaw it’s kind of trivial to game forums now. You just have to tell an agent to “post arguments for/against this perspective on this forum.” Give it a few talking points to include if you want to get specific and let it run. Specify the tone so it sounds realistic. It’s literally going to do everything else essentially forever or until you run out of tokens. Comments in a forum are dirt cheap so it’s also going to be very cheap.
Youd have to do a lot of work to make sure it's only a few short sentences, non-specific, and ultra-quippy though.
I mean I'm sure it can be done but if you ask an LLM to produce comment reply without more instruction it's going to write something a lot more thoughtful, respectful, and substantive than a forum user would.
It’s not that hard. You can literally say between 2-4 sentences.
Take a look at the Iran subreddit.
language question: what does astroturfed mean here? (i know that astroturf is artificial grass.)
It's when people (or bots) acting in bad faith make a lot of noise to make it seem like there is a strong support for some (usually bad) position. It' a play on the term "grassroots". Fake grassroots=astroturfing
excellent explanation. thank you.
Which ones are the pop-culture acceptable opinions?
You should point out the exact posts.
I mean does it matter?
At this point, lines have been drawn. In conservative land, everything conservative is good, everything liberal is bad. So the only sane position to take is the complete opposite.
For example, if you see someone self proclaimed liberal being critical of liberals, that person is probably a conservative or its a conservative bot.
Seems like you’re describing political polarization. Just on one side though.. Why?
Im saying political polarization needs to happen on the liberal side because its about 8 years behind conservatives on that front. When Trump showed up, no matter how much other conservatives disagreed with him - everyone got behind in rank and file. Meanwhile, the left purity checks each other all the time.
So if you are a democrat, and you want to make change, you need to behave exactly like conservatives do. Elections are decided by vibes, he who can attract the biggest social following through whatever means, wins.
That's not totally true when it comes to Zionism though. Much of the left and the right are united against Zionism. It's the older center liberals and right that are united in being pro-Zionism.
I dunno if you are a bot, but in case you are not, I hope you realize that Palestine stuff is basically controlled opposition. All the extreme left wing people that happen to be so pro Palestine are basically all sponsored by right wing to peddle propaganda and normalize stuff like Oct 7 so that the right can point to them and be like "look the liberals are crazy".
Its a propaganda machine that works very well to target the very impressionable people out there. I mean, students are going to protests and destroying their futures by getting arrested to show support of Palestinians, who would absolutely stone them to death if they found out that any of them smoked weed, and even more so for the lbgtq students for simply being gay.
So really, Israel vs Palestine shouldn't be an issue at all if you believe in actual change.
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Please define "Zionism"
Not sure why this is getting downvoted, it's simply a factual statement. It's also backed up by polling that came out yesterday: https://apnews.com/article/poll-gallup-americans-israel-pale...
Yes both the far left and far right believe that Jews aren’t allowed to live in their own homeland, because they are racist.
What? DEFINITELY astro turfed if you know what to look for.
At the very least by Chinese agents or useful idi*ts. The amount (or, alternatively, visibility) of Chinese apologists in this website is totally disproportionate)
Did you mean to say Israeli? Cause that's what it seems like to me. The level of misinformation is staggering.
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why would he be doing that?
I don’t know. Ask him.