Comment by lukan
4 hours ago
"What am I missing?"
That nationalism is the new state doctrin? Foreigners are inferior by definition, so they cannot really help with research anyway, all they want to do is steal secrets. If you think like that, then it makes sense.
God, maybe I could buy if it it came with significant work to repair US education and investment in a domestic science workforce, but unfortunately in the US, these nationalist waves have to also come with a strong air of anti-intellectualism.
"Foreigners are inferior by definition" - but USA approach says exactly the opposite. Foreigners are capable, so it is better not to share secrets and technology with them.
[0] Umberto Eco, *Ur-Fascism* https://www.nybooks.com/articles/1995/06/22/ur-fascism/
I assume the reasoning is if they're so capable, why would they need to steal secrets and technology?
I use "reasoning" in the broadest possible sense.
Exactly, why were these guys wandering around on nights and weekends?
Because they likely have no family there and on nights and weekends there is less trouble and noise, so better conditions to get into an uninterrupted flow state to get things done?
Is that really something in need of explaining on a hacker site?
(Or were you ironic? I cannot tell anymore)
There's a one-word shortcut for all that: fascism.
Got to love the fact that a large amount of users of HN still refuse to see the truth before their very eyes.
The issue is that when people start abusing words like "fascism" out of context they make those words lose meaning.
The US is definitely undergoing authoritarian tendencies, but it remains structurally constrained by separation of powers, federalism, and independent courts and media, features that fascist regimes systematically dismantle.
If you start calling everything fascism you are essentially helping those you call fascists because they can easily refute your thesis and gaslight you on the very realities of the authoritarian descent the country is going through.
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That word makes a lot of people uncomfortable and many will shut their brains off when they see it. It's a perfect word to describe what's happening, but sometimes describing the characteristics of it is better for engagement.
There are a lot of reactionaries in today's political landscape.
> It's a perfect word to describe what's happening
I don't think it really fits, but the US is sliding towards illiberal democracy.
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> You just don’t like anything else than your ideas, because you don’t like us. Sorry to be born.
Why do you think political ideology is an inborn trait? People don't like you because you actively choose to vote for things that bring about pain and suffering. Not because of your innate attributes.
You'll notice that The same dude was in charge in 2016 as 2026. The people warning about fascism were the ones who know what happens to the rhetoric and policies of 2016 when not countered.
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Yeah the other side doesn’t over use socialism or communism or terrorist. And conservatives haven’t been refusing to make concessions in Congress and the Senate for decades.
Isn't this a delightful Catch-22.
If you forewarn about a developing Fascist movement, you're simply taking away the meaning from the word until it's too late and the Fascists take power.
You cannot call anything Fascist, for there may be something more Fascist that may need the power of the word.
But ah! We couldn't call out their fledgling movement full of dog whistles and double speak so no one was aware enough to stop them as a fledgling movement!
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45349597
Your usage of "Your side" is telling. It seems like this is a team sport for you and you've picked a side. Unfortunately you might have sided with fascists.
"Your side"
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Ah, yes, let's concede just a bit of fascism, not a lot.
The irony is that almost every single one of the countries these foreigners come from would do exactly the same thing were the shoe on the other foot. If running government-funded research to maximize the opportunities for native born people is “fascism,” then every country in Asia, Africa, and the Middle East is “fascist.” Borderless universalism is a niche idea even in the west, and virtually non-existent outside it.
you present a lot of conviction yet there is not a single source for your opinion that was presented.
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It's not fascism, that's where big corporations control the government for their benefit like Italy in the 1920s and 1930s. Government interference in people's lives is socialism. If you throw nationalism into the mix it becomes something we could call... national socialism.
No man, that's called an oligarchy.
Sounds like you're not a fan of socialism.
How's it working out for you, spending a third of your income on rent but not actually having any rights to stay in the property you rent, and a further third on "health insurance" that'll take your money and run, leaving you to choose between a lifetime of debt or just plain dying if you ever get ill?
> Government interference in people's lives is socialism.
No, that's called 'governance'. Literally the whole job of government is interfering in people's lives.
Trump hates science anyway, so why not fire all scientists? Problem solved. /s
Isn't what they're basically doing with the massive funding cuts and cover-ups?
I don't think its about hate, its more like he doesn't believe in taking away something he cannot see with his own eye. Here his idea is that research and development will still continue happening even if overwhelming majority of people responsible for it in the past, will be gone.
Take COVID for example. We were fine with minor breakouts prior to Trump administration. They came in and Trump saw we are spending $3.7 million on safety measures in Wuhan Lab, fund designated by Obama (here comes first red flag right?) By his standard you could not SEE the protection so he wanted to look like Champion and save tax payers 3.7 million by removing that protection. We all know what came next and boy was damage more financially painful than mere 3.7 mil?
Its like a person who doesn't wear a seat belt because they never been in a car accident so they don't see the point. If given power they would remove mandates to wear seatbelts and have insurance companies deal with the outcome.
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"It’s fair to Americans and that’s what counts."
Well, let's talk in some years how this worked out for you. If you don't want to anymore, we in europe are mostly happy to welcome smart talents.
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> I think the world got used to us being patsies where we spend our money on R&D paying foreigners
I can tell you're not in the business of training / employing people.
The best ROI is getting someone who is already trained (read you didn't pay for their K-12, their parents' teaching/maternity/healthcare) and just deriving value from their labor.
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Quite the opposite. The US got the best of other countries, those countries paid for their education but the US got the benefits. The braun drain was to the US
Nazi scientists were brought in _after_ WWII, not during it.
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Every time I see something specific like this I wonder if there was something very similar and specific happening in Berlin ~90-93 years ago.
I've tried reviewing online archives of German books/newspapers but it's obviously very time consuming. The large LLM:s don't seem to index this area sufficiently.
Next up, “American science”: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Physik
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Yes? I don't know why these can't all be true and can't all be a bad thing. Anyways, the US used to not be like this. So it's noteworthy.