Comment by alephnerd
7 hours ago
This.
EM is a terminal position that does not own the product roadmap (Product Management) nor the underlying implementation (Staff/Principal Engineers).
They primarily own delivery and execution because orgs can't be bothered to hire program managers anymore.
If you are great at managing upwards and ensuring delivery by hook or by crook, you will make a great EM. But the next jump after EM is extremely difficult because you are competing with Principal Engineers and technical-minded PMs making a lateral move and cofounders who are being managed out by the board; and dealing with micromanaging CTOs or CPTOs.
Are you saying principal engineers and tech minded PMs make lateral moves into director level manager without going through being entry level EMs first?
I've never heard of something like that. Usually the requirement for being director level manager of engineers is to at least have managed people as an EM for several years before.
At my company it’s lateral.
Lead -> EM
Sr. Lead -> Sr. EM
Principal -> Director
Sr. Principal -> Sr. Director
The pay is aligned with the level whether or not you’re a people leader. To your point though, it may be difficult to go from Principal to Director. I see the lateral moves happen more at the Lead/Sr. Lead levels. They might do a Principal to a Sr. Manager as a trial period with the expectation that you’d be Director after a short time if you perform well. I’ve definitely seen directors become principals as well, so it goes both ways.