Comment by tlogan

15 hours ago

China creates about 30–35% of global emissions. India about 8% but it is climbing fast.

What rich countries do is they just export their factories to other countries and say: look we do not pollute.

CA buying gasoline from Bermuda, shipped via the Panama Canal, because it refuses to allow new refineries is the perfect demonstration of this.

  • That's also kind of a pigovian tax though, right? By making gasoline more expensive they discourage its use. I guess they're chicken to make it an actual tax

    Also why wouldn't it come from other US states? Seems easier

    • Sadly, it does not come from other states. It comes from other countries which, amazingly, tend to have much less strict environmental regulations.

      Yes, California is a little cleaner because we have fewer refineries and gas is more expensive, but globally we are probably about even.

    • Pipelines, the Jones Act and CA blend requirements prevent CA from getting much gas from other states.

Just for reference China has about 17% of the world's population, and India has about 18%.

China has also been deploying lots of renewable and nuclear energy, and their carbon emissions actually falling.

Solar and wind have gotten so cheap we should be able to forgo more fossil fuel deployment in developing nations.

Would someone like to explain why the Chinese (if as you say produce 30-35% of global emissions) don't appear to see a problem or at least if alluding to it as they do, fail to do much about it as major contributors of emissions? And then of course there are the countries proud of a relative lack of emissions who are merely exporting the problem to somewhere else, often enough, China.

  • Yes, they're still burning coal and gas but China are making huge strides in non CO2 intensive electricity generation

    China are the reason solar has become so affordable for the rest of the world

    • The latest major IEA estimate says China’s CO₂ emissions reached 12.6 Gt in 2023, up 4.7% from 2022.

      On the other hand U.S. CO₂ emissions decreased slightly between 2022 and 2023. About 2–3% (from 4.79 to 4.68 Gt)

      I just do not understand how we can claim any kind of progress here.

Exactly, this was the whole point of Trump calling climate change a hoax to benefit China, but somehow this got twisted by the media into not denying climate change being an anti-Trump position.

The base then started demanding this from their reps and Trump almost picked up on this himself. It took years to undo that damage and even now we're barely back at a pro-clean air, pro-solar and pro nuclear position...

  • This is why politicians are usually expected to choose their words carefully. Most of them know that what they say matters and has effects on the real world.