Comment by Peritract
2 days ago
Even in that short comment, the LLM has
- Made the prose flatter.
- Slightly changed the sense ('gladly' and 'happy to' are not equivalent, and neither are 'search for' and 'help me find') in ways that do add up
- Not actually improved anything
I disagree. To my ears, "to help me find wording that conveys my thoughts the way I want them to be understood by the reader" conveys the same meaning as "to search for a way to formulate my thoughts like I intend them to be received by the reader", only less convoluted and more precise: for example "understood" vs "received" - the former is more specific, the latter more general and fuzzy. The effect is to make the phrasing easier to read and understand.
Introducing "because" also adds to the clarity without weighing down things or changing the meaning. "Improved" instead of the bland "better" again is an... improvement.
I imagine GP didn't sneak in the tendentious "to fit with and be well received in the hacker news community" in his instructions.
Overall this was a worthwhile assist. I believe (totally understandable) anti-AI animus is coloring a lot of these replies. These tools can be useful when applied sparingly and targeted la GP did. It's true and very unfortunate that often they are used as the proverbial hammer in search of a nail, flattening everything in the process.
> Overall this was a worthwhile assist. I believe (totally understandable) anti-AI animus is coloring a lot of these replies.
That, and hindsight bias. People know the second version came from an LLM, so it's automatically "flat." But if that edited comment had just been posted, nobody would've blinked. It reads fine.
IMO, there's a distinction worth drawing here: "AI edited" and "AI generated" are not the same thing. If you write something to express your own thinking, then use an LLM to tighten the phrasing or catch grammar issues, that's just editing. You're still the one with the ideas and the intent. The LLM is a tool, not an author.
The real failure mode is obvious enough: people who dump raw model prose into threads without critical review. The only one who "delved into things" was the model - not the human pressing send. That does flatten everything. But that’s a different case from a non-native speaker using a tool to express their own point more clearly.
The "preserve your voice" argument also smuggles in a premise I don't necessarily share - that everyone should care about preserving their voice. I'm neurodivergent. Being misunderstood when I know I've been clear is one of the most frustrating experiences there is. For some of us, being understood sometimes matters more than sounding like ourselves.
> But if that edited comment had just been posted, nobody would've blinked. It reads fine.
That's definitely fair here; I still think the human version is better in contrast, but there's nothing wrong with the AI version, and had it been posted without the comparison, there would have been no issue.
Preserve your voice is not really about preserving your identity and I think I only remember a few commenters. Humans hve a certain cadence to writing (even after editing) that LLMs strip away. The way LLM write feels unnatural. Perfect grammar, but weird rythms of ideas.
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There are many topics which I know I am not qualified to comment on. I don't understand, for example, the different ways to handle pointers in C++; if someone shows me two snippets of code handling them in different ways, I can't meaningfully distinguish between them. My takeaway from this is 'I shouldn't give advice about C++ pointers', rather than 'there are no meaningful differences in syntax'. I am not qualified to contribute on that topic, and I should spend time improving my understanding before I start hectoring.
Your comment is one of many on this post that assumes that--because you personally have not noticed a difference--one must not exist. This is not a reasonable assumption.
To take one small example, there is a distinction between 'understood by the reader' and 'received by the reader'. One of them is primarily focused on semantic transmission (did the reader get the message?) and one of them encompasses a wider set of aims (did the reader get the message, and the context, and the connotations, & how did it impact them?).
Every phrasing choice carries precise meanings. There are essentially no perfect synonyms.
In this specific comment, I want you to understand that there are gradations you might not be qualified to detect/comment on. In terms of reception, I'm hoping you will see this as a genuine attempt to communicate, rather than an attack, but I also want you to be aware of the (now voiced) implication that 'I don't see this so it isn't real', no matter how verbose, is a low-effort contribution that doesn't actually add anything.
I'm reminded of Chesterton's fence [1]: if you can't see a reason for something, study it rather than dismissing it.
[1] https://fs.blog/chestertons-fence/
Sorry, but now you just sound straight-up pompous.
Starting with that absurd first paragraph offering proof for the otherwise inconceivable idea that there are are indeed topics that you aren't qualified to comment on - on one hand, and on the other insinuating that you surely must be more qualified than me to comment on semantics; continuing with the second, totally uncalled for given that I prefaced my comment with "to my ears", yet you didn't; the third, again redundant since I already mentioned that "received" is more general than "understood", so of course the meaning is different - that's the whole point, using a tool to find more fitting meanings, if they would be the same what would be the point?? The assumption is whoever uses the tool keeps the one they feel comes closer to what they had in mind, discarding the rest, no?
Let's stick to this particular example. Why is "understood" a better fit in that context (beyond the original comment suggesting it was closer to their intended meaning)? Because that's as much as we can hope for - to convey the desired understanding. (And yes, that includes connotations and the like, at least if you want to stick to a reasonable, not tendentiously restricted understanding of the word.) How the meaning is received depends indeed on other context, like maturity and generally life experience. For example, you were probably hoping that your message would be received with awe and newfound respect on my part for your wit and depth of insight. But instead, I found you comment merely tedious and vacuous. Consequently, I don't plan to check back on whatever you might scribble in response.
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I have trouble believing that haughty slop wasn't written by an AI.
> my ears, "to help me find wording that conveys my thoughts the way I want them to be understood by the reader" conveys the same meaning as "to search for a way to formulate my thoughts like I intend them to be received by the reader"
I disagree with your disagreement and subjective take. The LLM changed the meaning in a significant but not very obvious way.
Compare "I use a hammer to drive nails" to "I use a hammer to help me drive nails"
In the former the writer implies tool use, in the latter the LLM turned that into some sort of assistant relationship. The former is normal, the latter is cringe (to my ears)
I would argue that it actually reduced the literacy level required to understand the message by using simpler terms.
> formulate my thoughts like I intend them to be received by the reader
> conveys my thoughts the way I want them to be understood by the reader
there is a way the parent poster constructs their sentences that may sound a little clumsy in a literary sense, but is actually dumbed down
There is also significant meaning encoded in the parent's choice of words that implies more than what's written. "Formulate", "intend", and "receive" imply the parent comes from a technical or academic background, and this is how they express their thoughts. Parent has "intentions", not mere "wants". To the parent, the act of weaving together a comment for communication constitutes "Formulating thought", which is different from just "find wording"
it also substantially changed the meaning by substituting 'always' to 'often'. and it's this sort of nuance that makes it very hard to trust for precise communication.
How do you know what the text would have been without LLM assist? Did I miss something? You are so confident in your claims, yet I don't see the non-LLM-assisted version.
You have definitely missed something; the parent comment is literally the the human-created and LLM-generated text next to each other.
Thanks, indeed I missed this: "here's what ChatGPT suggests:"
> Did I miss something?
Probably. Planb’s message suggest that the first paragraph is their own writing, the second paragraph tells us that the third paragraph is the llm “improved” version of the first.