Comment by blondie9x
8 hours ago
China has started to become the voice of reason in an increasingly volatile world. If they can build a peaceful relationship with Taiwan without military involvement where both countries can continue to prosper we really will have a new super power. The world needs this more than ever as the US becomes increasingly radicalized by the federal government.
They're hardly a voice of reason, they criticize the US so everyone rallies around them, but they're just taking advantage of the situation like anyone else would. It's all optics. I think the era of the superpower is already over.
They can't build a peaceful relationship with taiwan, it would hurt the PRC if they did that. They need an point of contention for political reasons there, but taiwan has seen what has become of hong kong. They have historical ties but since the 1940's much like the Koreas their culture and society has developed separately. Peace is possible, if the PRC can accept a separate independent Taiwan, but they won't for the same reason putin doesn't like countries like ukraine nearby, that have a significant military and economic advantage to be outside its sphere of influence.
China is like a carefully crafted house of cards, long term planning means they will likely establish a long lasting prosperous nation, but that's only possible if contemporary situations don't force them into desperate actions, like invading taiwan, a military conflict with the US,etc.. right now their sources of oil from iran and venezuela are being cut off, they've been heavily investing in renewables predicting this exact situation, and that's what I mean by long term, they're a few decades away from the fruition of most of their longterm plans. Xi won't be alive to see it, but he needs to make a mark in their history too. The fate of china depends on Xi's patience, and the ability of China to endure temporary economic hardship.
They've been building alliances like BRICS for the same reasons, they're grandstanding now also to avoid a direct confrontation with the US.
The US isn't increasingly being radicalized, it is beyond that. it is right a strange mix of kakistocracy and kleptocracy. On one hand, the US's hegemony is practically over, on the other hand who will fill in the void? certainly not China. Even things like the UN are not a given anymore. The best outcome is one that avoids conflict between countries with large economies and militaries.
BRICS isn't an alliance. They have never agreed on anything significant or taken any meaningful coordinated action.
It is similar to G8, and like I said, they're been building one, I didn't say they're completed the building. But current events are helping with that effort.
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Are you new to this site? I ask because your comment is entirely against the decorum we try to maintain here. This is a place for meaningful discussion (on topics pertaining to engineering and science in particular), it is not like Reddit where we hurl insults on one another in some apparent attempt to ratio people we disagree with.
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This is a common attitude among Americans, to see other countries as a beacon of reason and even contemplate moving there, when theirs is moderately frustrating and has plenty of constructive reform available to do at the person’s level of influence. It was popular during the Cold War to fantasize about living in the USSR, and today, the fantasy is typically Canada, Europe, Russia or China depending on politics and level of interest in technology.
> If they can build a peaceful relationship with Taiwan without military involvement
Xi fucked this up because he’s a dictator.
Taiwanese polling on national identity was mixed until the 2010s [1]. Left at peace, it would have probably voted for reintegration in our lifetimes. But then Xi decided the post-Mao system of political competition within the CCP was inconvenient, launched his wolf warriors on all of China’s neighbors, annexed Hong Kong prematurely and started warmongering with Taiwan, all of which has lead to an avoidable but now-permanent polarization across the strait.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_on_Taiwanese_i...
China may have been a voice of reason (relatively) during the Deng Xiaoping times. Under comrade Xi, China is a voice of something different, alas.
If they can build a peaceful relationship with Taiwan without military involvement where both countries can continue to prosper we really will have a new super power
Ah, if only.
Those damn intransigent Taiwanese!
It’s almost as if they don’t want to join the PRC.
…like most other independent nations.
An odd take on a regime that has known and significant human rights violations. I’m not saying the US is doing great right now, but China is not something to look up to.
The US is doing much, much worse. This is no compliment to China. The US
* murdered a political leader the were negotiating with in Iran after using the military to kidnap the leader of Venezuela.
* is credibly threatening military allies in Greenland, countries with which it has mutual protection treaties and is credibly threatening, without casus belli, to militarily invade another weaker neighbor, Cuba.
* spent months threatening to invade Canada. This wasn't trolling, it is forgotten with their strategy of constant chaos, but they really tried and Canada has made alliances with other countries as a result
* is actively murdering thousands of people in Haiti via a Republican allied private military contractor
* is actively subverting domestic elections
* is building and filling concentration camps with people who have committed no other crime than illegal residency, without due process, and giving them substandard care, leading to many deaths in custody.
* has masked secret police detaining people without due process and deporting them to foreign prison camps, frequently in violation of judicial orders
* has masked secret police arresting citizen because of their nationality and because they are not carrying "their papers"
* is using the power of government to force mergers and ownership changes of corporations to political allies
* is using the power of the government to hide an embarrassing a criminal conspiracy involving leadership in the country, in violation of the US Constitution, since it was ordered by Congress.
* has completely disregarded conflict of interest laws which the leader of the country is using to enrich himself and his family at completely unprecedented levels in US history.
I could go on, but China is a more ethical superpower by a lot of measures and that is a very painful conclusion to state.
This is not even touching on the subject of competency.
The internationally accepted US hegemony and the privileged role of the US dollar was the result of almost a century of goodwill. It is now gone, and then some. The next two decades will not be pleasant for regular Americans who have grown accustomed to, and frankly taken for granted, the level of privilege they had.
edit: and speak of the devil, and competency: https://mitsloan.mit.edu/ideas-made-to-matter/what-happens-w... just made it to the top of the front page. Even with everything I wrote above, I had neglected to include that the US lies about embarrassing economic data now due to political intererence.
edit 2: this didn't even make the front page and would have been the biggest scandal in modern American history: https://www.wsj.com/tech/tiktok-deal-fee-trump-administratio... "Trump Administration Set to Receive $10 Billion Fee for Brokering TikTok Deal"
Neither is the US. Neither it was in the last 25 years. Today’s USA looks like Russia with a cowboy at the helm. But what a cowboy that is. An offspring of an immigrant with an immigrant wife who barely speaks English. Comedy shit show. Maybe if he shut up for a bit and let the army act, it would look different. But no, they guy has to blabber. The saddest thing is, it’s not Trump, it’s half of US population.
Power is power.
The US has due process, judicial transparency, and free speech. There are still rich people that operate above the system, but they're largely still accountable and the free press can crucify them.
Authoritarian regimes have execution vans, no freedom of the press, no free speech, and a paranoid leadership that will jail or kill anyone who threatens their power. They lock citizens inside and prohibit capital flight.
No system is perfect, but democracy is strictly better.
I love China and the Chinese people, but the CCP is a drag on both.
I'm no fan of the party in power in the US, but I can campaign and speak out against them. I can raise money to oppose them. I can band together with like minded individuals to protest. That's superior to unilateral oppression.
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Wow, nativism from the left is wild to see. Obama was the son of an immigrant vs the grandchild of one for Trump. There’s a lot of valid criticism of Melania but claiming it’s because she “can’t” speak English is wild (she speaks with an accent but so what).
I’m tired of attacks on personal characteristics that have no bearing (or are even outside their control) rather than on legitimate things like ideas, temperament, decision making, track record. Do better.
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They have the most economic output, the highest quality technology, and the sanest voices of reason. It's too bad they're a dictatorship. If they can fix that I might have to move there.
They are supporting and encouraging Russia’s war against Ukraine. They also provide diplomatic cover and economic support for the Iranian regime. They promote nationalist radicalism and harassment of nonconformists on foreign campuses. They ruthlessly suppress dissent, or even just non Han ethic identity and implement racist eugenic policies in their regions.
The comment you replied to referred to Taiwan as existing alongside China as a country. That’s a crime in mainland China.
> They also provide diplomatic cover and economic support for the Iranian regime
I can't believe some people can still argue in good faith the US and israel are the good guys, do you have a ounce of self reflection? You kidnap presidents, kill entire families of political leaders, talk about them like they are dogs (see the latest white house propaganda videos or Hegseth speeches), and then you come here to argue China is bad because they may one day plan to do something similar, how blind are you? Everything you accuse the others of planning you already have done it or are actively doing it right now...
The Usa does similar things across the world. Here I swapped for the Usa.
> They are supporting and encouraging Israel’s war against Iran and Palestine. They also provide diplomatic cover and economic support for the Israeli regime. They promote nationalist radicalism and harassment of nonconformists on foreign campuses (Columbia protests). They ruthlessly suppress dissent (you must support the troops, using chemical weapons on protestors), or even just non White ethic identity and implement racist policies in their regions (rounding up immigrants without due process).
Do you speak Mandarin? Because upthread there’s a guy railing against Melania because she speaks English with an accent and I suspect you’ll get a similar reception in China.
Also, if you think racism in America is a problem, ooo boy do I want to see your experience as a foreigner in a largely homogenous country that has little immigration.
I think China would say the last one is the reason for the first three, and point to democracy as a root cause for the problems facing the West.
>They have the most economic output
Only because they have such a large population. Their economic output per person (GDP per capita) is only around $15k, similar to Turkey. And they've hit a severe aging population problem that other East Asian countries only hit when their GDP per capita was around $30k; they're getting old before they get rich. Unless they dramatically increase immigration or birthrates (now less than 1.0), it's likely that even by 2100 Chinese people still won't enjoy the same standard of living (GDP per capita of around $80k) that Americans enjoy today.