Comment by rwmj
7 days ago
Which is a good thing. They should be teaching the cornerstone principles, not offering vocational courses.
7 days ago
Which is a good thing. They should be teaching the cornerstone principles, not offering vocational courses.
I think having one or two "software engineering" courses where it's project-based really helps. You get to actually learn how to use Git, work in a team, and architect and finish a project on time - which is going to be valuable no matter if you're seeking a software engineering job afterwards or stay in academia.
Seriously I had multiple courses on Java and C++ but not a single mention of version control. It wasn't even an elective as far as I remember.
A course where 3+ students build something together in a single repo and the professor can view the commit and PR history would be amazing.
I had one during my undergraduate years: four people had to work together as a team to build a full web service from scratch and present it at the end of the semester. The lectures from the professor were mostly about general software engineering practice (version control, testing, etc.) and OOP / design patterns - but apart from that the real deal was that you had to learn the entire frontend / backend web stack (which the TAs covered instead, at breaknecking speed). Obviously it was known to be the most brutal and hardcore course in the entire CS department, but you got decent grades given that you actually survived the whole thing, and it's often said to be one of the most memorable ones (I've heard an anecdote that the single course was more helpful than interning at Google for half a year)
my old CS prof at my uni used to say when this question came up "do you sign up for an astronomy course and expect they teach you how to build a telescope?"
It's always puzzled me why people sign up for an academic education that has 'science' literally in the name and then complain when they get a theoretical education. It's not a tool workshop
Well the issue is the majority of people study CS to become software engineers not academics in CS. There are only a small number of software engineering degrees at select universities, so CS is the de facto route to becoming a SWE. So it’s not unreasonable students would want a bit of practical industry education in their CS degree.
I’m actually surprised with as much money is in tech that there hasn’t been more influence towards shaping curriculum to be more industry relevant. Companies waste tons of money ramping up new grads and bridging the CS to SWE gap, surely the incentives are there for a different curriculum.
A single course... no, but if I was majoring in astronomy I would expect to understand telescopes enough to put one together.
Because they haven’t overcome their addiction to food and shelter and they need to make money to support their addictions?
universities aren't job centers either. They don't supply you with food and shelter, you pay them money and they give you the education you want. Which can mean making a lot of money if you happen to pick something private businesses value but it can also mean reading Ulysses or The Old Testament or number theory all day.
Higher education is entirely up to you, it's not a company pre-training. If you want that there are literal vocational programs that are not computer science.
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You think most people spend tens of thousands of dollars on college and expect not to be employable?
In my experience the places worth working for care about cornerstone principles far more than the hot buzzwords on a resume.
Well if you don’t have a job, the places worth working for is the one that will pay you in exchange for your labor so you aren’t homeless, hungry and naked.
A junior developer can’t say “you know what I don’t want to work for your company because you don’t value cornerstone principals. I would rather sleep on the street”
What you're after is a technical college with vocational training. They are definitely important and have their place. Some students at university would be better off going to technical colleges. But technical colleges are not the same as what universities do.
Considering how many are struggling to find a job, evidently it’s the universities that need to change.
Exactly. Why are people so repulsed by the idea a college degree may give you some kind of employable skill. Like, “Ew gross, they taught git in CS 101, how dare they degrade the purity of our scientific education.