Comment by jibal
5 days ago
The conclusion that LLMs don't reason is not a consequence of them not being able to do arithmetic, so your argument isn't valid.
Also, see https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
"Be kind. Don't be snarky. Converse curiously; don't cross-examine. Edit out swipes.
Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive.
When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. "That is idiotic; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3" can be shortened to "1 + 1 is 2, not 3."
Don't be curmudgeonly. Thoughtful criticism is fine, but please don't be rigidly or generically negative."
etc.
Plenty of humans can't do arithmetic. Can they also not reason.
Reasoning isn't a binary switch. It's a multidimensional continuum. AI can clearly reason to some extent even if it also clearly doesn't reason in the same way that a human would.
> Plenty of humans can't do arithmetic. Can they also not reason.
I just pointed out that this isn't valid reasoning ... it's a fallacy of denial of the antecedent. No one is arguing that because LLMs can't do arithmetic, therefore they can't reason. After all, zamalek said that he can't quickly multiply large numbers in his head, but he isn't saying that therefore he can't reason.
> Reasoning isn't a binary switch. It's a multidimensional continuum.
Indeed, and a lot of humans are very bad at it, as is clear from the comments I'm responding to.
> AI can clearly reason to some extent
The claim was about LLMs, not AI. This is like if someone said that chihuahuas are little and someone responded by saying that dogs are tall to some extent.
LLMs do not reason ... they do syntactic pattern matching. The appearance of reasoning is because of all the reasoning by humans that is implicit in the training data.
I've had this argument too many times ... it never goes anywhere. So I won't respond again ... over and out.
Indeed, and a lot of humans are very bad at it, as is clear from the comments I'm responding to.
This is your idea of "conversing curiously" and "editing out swipes," I suppose.
I've had this argument too many times ... it never goes anywhere. So I won't respond again ... over and out.
A real reasoning entity might pause for self-examination here. Maybe run its chain of thought for a few more iterations, or spend some tokens calling research tools. Just to probe the apparent mismatch between its own priors and those of "a lot of humans," most of whom are not, in fact, morons.
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Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive
Yes, they should, but instead we're stuck with the stochastic-parrot crowd, who log onto HN and try their best to emulate a stochastic parrot.