Comment by replooda
2 days ago
What is? No coddling? Little tolerance toward laziness? Zero toward entitlement? That's closer to the opposite of being patronizing, I would say.
They point to documentation in response to the kind of request I've seen closed with RTFMs elsewhere. They'll expect one to read it, and try one's hand at whatever one is trying to accomplish — and they'll feel slighted by a refusal, given how much work they put into it.
And yet, they go to great, unexpected (given the fame) lengths to help someone actually making the effort; they don't try to put anyone down in order to feel bigger than they are, but they don't sugar coat things to appear more likable either.
In short, no, knowing what one is doing isn't a prerequisite; it's more about not foisting onto others the responsibility for the effort required to move from where one is to where one wants to be — whether in knowledge, maturity or tools.
What do you consider laziness?
Why do you believe pointing to the manual is newbie friendly?
In the Linux world, it took ages before it was newbie friendly (thinking Ubuntu and Mint).
OpenBSD serves an important niche, but to brand it as newbie-friendly does OpenBSD a disservice.
Or perhaps you mean newbie tolerant?
> What do you consider laziness?
In this context, what I expanded above as foisting onto others the responsibility for the effort required by what we want to accomplish.
> Why do you believe pointing to the manual is newbie friendly?
To the documentation, which may or may not be a manpage; as it's usually done in response to a request for the information contained therein, I do find it reasonable.
> OpenBSD serves an important niche, but to brand it as newbie-friendly does OpenBSD a disservice.
We're discussing OpenBSD's community, not the system itself.
> Or perhaps you mean newbie tolerant?
I meant what I wrote, that I find the community to be the opposite of "notoriously terrible and unwelcoming to newbies," by which I do not imply newbie-friendliness in a kindergarten sense.
> We're discussing OpenBSD's community, not the system itself.
The community makes the system and decides what’s tolerable. That is to say, the community decides the type of users it expects to serve.
When your own example of laziness is to provide a script and someone fails to run a script; you’re comparing to a time when RTFM was the Linux norm. But those days where RTFM to newbies were tolerable are long gone.
So OpenBSD was the friendlier community then; it’s a niche and insular community today.
So while I agree it’s not a terrible community, I also wouldn’t say it’s inviting.
> I meant what I wrote, that I find the community to be the opposite of "notoriously terrible and unwelcoming to newbies," by which I do not imply newbie-friendliness in a kindergarten sense.
I mean, it’s not inviting to newbies either; which is the plain reading and understanding of “opposite” of what the OP stated.
Instead it’s “tolerant”, a term which for some reason you don’t seem to like.
I’d ask if you’re Theo, mainly due to the strange back and forth we’re having over semantics and a concern over the OpenBSD community reputation.
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