Comment by fusslo
4 days ago
> Missouri campaign finance records show a political action committee — made up of labor unions that support data centers because of the jobs they create — spent almost $40,000 in the final weeks of the race on newspaper and digital ads and yard signs in support of the four council members booted from office.
Serious question, what jobs do datacenters create?
Are there jobs for local residents?
A small number of jobs for tradesmen (electricians, plumbers, etc.).
A small number of jobs for security guards.
Maybe a tiny number (one to three?) for individuals tasked with actual hardware swapping within the data center itself.
And all of the above assumes the data center owner does not "travel in" the requisite individuals on an "as needed" basis -- in which case the only jobs that may go to the locals is "security guard".
But all of the "sys-admin" management level work can be done remotely.
So the actual number of new jobs that arrive in the locality is likely on the order of 20-30 or fewer.
Yeah and that type of work bid usually goes to huge conglomerates. A local mom and pop electrician shop isn’t going to be building a datacenter, it’ll be something like Siemens.
A friend of mine is an independent electrician in the Columbus, OH area. Last summer he told me he was getting plenty of datacenter construction work, albeit it was in the form of subcontracted jobs from the larger firms who were awarded the contracts.
2 replies →
I work for an electrical contractor that does large data center projects and we almost always partner with a local contractor to provide labor from the local union(s).
1 reply →
Local shops will absolutely be contracted to work on the project. A datacenter project like this can't find enough qualified electricians.
1 reply →
>Yeah and that type of work bid usually goes to huge conglomerates.
Which are exactly the kinds of entities that the trades unions and industry interest groups are most deeply in bed with.
> A small number of jobs for tradesmen (electricians, plumbers, etc.).
Its no car dealership but probably a reliable source of work-orders. Seems like a "gigascale" datacenter would be a large job for a tradesman to be a subcontractor within and afterward its scale means continuous upgrades/maintenance.
Is there any literature of ongoing economic impact of similar facilities?
How many of these are on-going jobs vs during construction and as-needed? I think you're right it'll be only security guard jobs. Even if they don't travel in workers, it's quick short-term tasks that maybe locals can perform, but that's not "creating jobs."
This argument has always been such a weird goalpost shift for me. Even at my full time job I am getting strung together by 3-12 month projects. Everyone works on projects. When this data center is done in a year, we'll (hopefully) need to build something else, keeping those people employed.
Like, of course it's creating a job. If you create a million 1-year jobs every year, that's a million jobs.
2 replies →
In a town of 12K people I'd say it's incredibly unlikely. Most of if not all the labor to build it will be flown in, most of the labor to staff it will be moved in.
And once it's built it's not like a Walmart or something where you need enough staff to police the crowds...there are not crowds. There's some rack and stack needs, and some ongoing cabling needs generally,and some other stuff, but they are staffed as lightly as humanly possible.
I suppose w/ all the out of town labor to build it there will be more waitress and hotel cleaning jobs for a while...a town or over...where they can actually house the labor.
Oh, and they are getting an Olive Garden...which will probably employ more local labor.
Festus isn’t small because it’s in the middle of nowhere. It’s right there with Arnold, Barnhart, Crystal City, and other far south suburbs of St. Louis. The metro area can build it. It’s not like Boeing brings in remote labor from around the country every time they build an F-15.
> And once it's built it's not like a Walmart
Yet it creates infinitely more value than a supermarket.
It will raise $8-$18m/yr in property tax revenue for the county (depending on abatements), which will likely increase the local counties revenues by 30-50% and primarily go towards local schools, as well as an estimated 50-150 jobs.
If they require the datacenter to be a closed water system and pay for their own electricity, it's an extremely low environmental & industrial (all contained clean rooms, no air pollutants, risk to local water systems, etc.) once in a lifetime boon for the local municipality.
The council members (probably, again depending on abatements & water/energy policy) did represent their constituents well.
"If they require the datacenter to be a closed water system and pay for their own electricity..."
This assertion is doing a LOT of heavy lifting, and when it isn't true, it can cause huge externalities not just for the local community but possibly an entire region. It also does not address the noise problem.
Additionally, your jobs estimates are likely high and include short-term construction jobs which may not even go to locals anyway.
"Pay for their own electricity" is just not an actual thing that seems to be doable at this scale without those externalities. You're talking about sites that are, say, 800MW or 1GW or more... these use more power than tens of thousands of homes, and require entirely new power plants, interconnects, lines run, transformer costs, staff, etc. Typically, power companies amortize those costs and spread them over ratepayers, and when it's just part of the normal induced load of population growth, that's just how things go, and the system works.
In these cases, the rates that these DCs are paying for power are nowhere close to being able to fully absorb or offset the additional CapEx that the power companies are suddenly tasked with, even if they put up, say, the capital for IC, which is usually what's required. So the remaining new shortfalls get spread over the remaining ratepayers, ie, everyone else. If the demand wasn't induced by the build of these massive sites that, strictly speaking, aren't "necessary," then the rates wouldn't have to climb to accommodate them.
Frankly, there should be laws against power companies raising ratepayer rates to accommodate infrastructure investments driven solely by DC/fab load inducement.
It is way better than wasting power on house heating and watering your lawns. It actually creates economic value.
7 replies →
> Serious question, what jobs do datacenters create? Are there jobs for local residents?
If locals are qualified then yes. The DC itself does not have many permanent staff (tech, facilities, security) but loads of work is contracted. I'd say that great majority of the work done in and around the DC campus is outsourced, and it creates work for plenty of people.
It doesn't create ongoing jobs. It creates short term work, and perhaps the occasional momentary task. The only permanent jobs will be physical security.
What do you think people working in construction actually do when the project is done? Just spend the rest of their life homeless? No, they go to the next project.
1 reply →
Are you talking about contractors just while the DC is under construction or after it’s built as well? Google wants to build one in my home town and I’m questioning what value it will bring to the community.
to build - yes. after it is built - no. so there is some temporary work but nothing permanent
You're wrong. People are probably impressed by the dollar value number it takes to build a DC/campus and then expect that the number of hired people should be "proportionally" equally high. It doesn't work like that but DCs definitely create more than enough local jobs for qualified even after it's built
13 replies →
At least when i was at google, more than a decades ago at this point, hardware ops guys were locally sourced
4 replies →
There will be at least 5 employees working as smart hands 24/7, so probably 3 shifts -- 15 people. Plus 1-2 security agents working 24/7, another 6 jobs. Plus a foreman with some maintenance crew for HVAC/electrical (not 24/7) so probably another 1-3 jobs.
That's a really sweet deal for a town with only 11k people and no other external investments on the horizon.
According to the U.S. Chamber of Commerce[1], 1688 while being built, 157 on-going jobs. I assume this is some 'average' datacenter; I didn't pursue methodology.
[1] https://www.uschamber.com/assets/documents/ctec_datacenterrp...
Almost none. Its entire value is in one-time construction regional purchasing and the ability to say the word “jobs” to the cameras. Occasionally they have the guts to charge market rates for resources or taxes but for the most part that’s heavily discounted. (See also e.g. The Dalles’ attempt to secretly sell much of its watershed to datacenters.)
Many jobs during construction. A site like this is a substantial multi-year construction effort.
Long term permanent jobs.. not so much.
A few dozen jobs in a town of 12,000 is nothing to sneeze at.
As someone who lives in Northern Virginia, there are definitely ongoing jobs, but in this area they are mostly filled with H1B workers. The real money is in development