Comment by culi
19 hours ago
I think that's an overgeneralization. We've seen all the American models be closed and proprietary from the start. Meanwhile the non-American (especially the Chinese ones) have been open since the start. In fact they often go the opposite direction. Many Chinese models started off proprietary and then were later opened up (like many of the larger Qwen models)
> We've seen all the American models be closed and proprietary from the start
What about Gemma and Llama and gpt-oss, not to mention lots of smaller/specialized models from Nvidia and others?
I would never argue that China isn't ahead in the open weights game, of course, but it's not like it's "all" American models by any stretch.
gpt-oss is good but I haven't heard anything about an update. It seems like one and done, to shut up people complaining about non-Open AI
The more accurate version is only Chinese companies (plus Facebook briefly) really open source their frontier models. The rest are non frontier. They are either older or specialized for something.
It's all openwashing, all of the ones you listed at somepoint have expressed how important and valuable open weights and locally usable models are. Every single one of them has then increasingly focused and pushed closed, proprietary or cloud usable only options since saying/doing that.
I'm annoyed at myself, because I thought/hoped/praised chinese AI when they were opening up as Llama was closing, but Qwen looks to be doing the same playbook here as Llama/Meta, Gemma/Google and OpenAI/gpt-oss.
GPT started off open? They just closed before anyone else even joined the space
> We've seen all the American models be closed and proprietary from the start.
Most*.
OpenAI, contrary to popular belief, actually used to believe in open research and (more or less) open models. GPT1 and GPT2 both were model+code releases (although GPT2 was a "staged" release), GPT3 ended up API-only.
That's fair but those days seem so long gone now.
Also the Chinese models aren't following a typical American SaaS playbook which relies on free/cheap proprietary software for early growth. They are not just publishing their weights but also their code and often even publishing papers in Open Access journals to explicitly highlight what methods and advancements were made to accomplish their results
> those days seem so long gone now.
Well, Musk v OpenAI kicks off in one week from now with the objective of forcing them back to their roots. A jury will be deciding whether a nonprofit accepting $50m - $100m of donations and then discarding their mission for an IPO is OK or not. Should be interesting.
The Nvidia Nemotron models are recent, and of course the Gemma 4 series from Google.
Any idea why they do that?
gasp Science!
OpenAI has released their GPT-OSS series more recently.
Recently, more like 20 years ago in LLM-years.
It's a good model though, would be nice with a refresh.