Comment by tmoertel
20 hours ago
Before you spend many thousands of dollars on a machine better suited to a coffee shop, consider getting a minimalist lever machine.
I have (and love) my little Cafelat Robot [1]. It is small, draws no electricity, and relies upon my practiced hands to push preheated water through the coffee puck. There is nothing to get between me and the experience of making great espresso. I can feel the pressure, I can hear the stream of espresso, I can effortlessly adjust the flow in response to what the extraction is telling my senses.
Instead of a button press, pulling a shot is now a tactile experience that engages the senses. When the pull is done, I am primed to enjoy the results.
Yes, before getting an expensive commercial-style machine, consider what’s on the other end of the spectrum. Full manual has its benefits, both practical and aesthetic.
Plus, the money you will save will let you buy a better grinder. And that makes all the difference.
If a lever machine is too finicky for you, consider an espresso machine that is actually made for home use. Now I don't mean things like Rancilio Silva and other mini machines that are actually fairly crippled because they don't allow you to adjust the pressure, but a proper one.
AFAIK (but it's been a few years since I researched this) there are exactly two: the Profitec Go and the Lelit Victoria. Both are small(ish) and warm up quickly, unlike machines intended for professional use like the La Mazocco. The difference between the two is that the Profitec has the pressure adjustment on the outside while the Lelit requires you to open the machine up. However, adjusting the pressure is mostly a one-time affair, so that's not much of a problem.
Like all machines intended for home use neither will let you (easily) pull a shot and steam milk simultaneously, because they have only one reservoir and the temperature for pulling a shot is different from the temperature for steaming. You can get simple, cheap, milk frothing devices, however, which work pretty well.
(all of this is assuming you already have a good grinder and decent coffee, which is, as everyone else said, much more important).
A good machine will always need time to heat up since the temperature stability, which is very important for getting good espresso shots, correlates with the weight of the device. For most machines this means 30-45 min or so no matter what the manufacturer is saying and in practice this isn't much of a problem once you plug the machine through a smart plug which you can program to turn on the device before you're getting up in the morning.
Secondly, adjusting pressure is almost a completely unnecessary feature so I'm not sure why do you chose to point that out as a major differentiator. 9 bars is just fine. In similar category goes the PID for adjusting the temperature. While on the paper it sounds cool in reality you will not use them 99% of the time. There's many prosumer machines which don't allow you neither of those and are still perfectly fine machines.
La Marzocco Micra is up to temp in under 10 minutes and will stay there all day, it works very well indeed.
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Ascaso Steel Duo is an affordable compact machine with two PID controlled circuits and adjustable pressure.
Ah, didn't know about that one. Twice as expensive as the ones I mentioned, though.
I have a Lelit Elizabeth. It’s a dual-boiler machine, so you can pull a shot and steam milk at the same time. If you want consistently good coffee without going too far down the espresso-nerd rabbit hole, it hits a nice sweet spot, especially if you’re into flat whites.
If you, like me, are not a baby cow and don’t drink milk I can recommend the ECM Puristika. It’s a tiny, single-boiler E61 that’s just purely for making espresso (no steam wand, no hot water spout). Heats up in about 15 minutes.
>Profitec Go and the Lelit Victoria
I didn't expect these prices! Think I'll stay with my Bambino which cost me a third (and does a _much_ better coffee than my parents' horrid DeLonghi Dedica) but good to know these exist.
This is the first commercial website where i just couldnt find the price, neither the "buy" button ..
They linked to the manual page, if you go to the root of the site, there's a link to a different domain which is the "Official authorised online store for all Cafelat items."
The UK site has them out of stock, and about 350 quid.
So I won't be replacing my Aeropress or Bialetti pot with one this month.
I would like to give a strong counterexample to that. I got a Flair 58 lever machine which on the one hand is a beautifully engineered machine (connected to a trash power supply that feels like it stepped out of the 90s but that's another story).
However, it's not the machine for me. I got it when I was deeply getting into coffee, and I'm coming from a scientific background so I wanted to do proper testing of my extractions. That's not really possible with a lever machine. Shots are inherently not reproducible, it's very difficult to get the same pressure from one shot to the next, even with the pressure gauge.
If that doesn't bother you and you're just happy to get decent espresso from a beautiful looking machine, then absolutely go for a lever machine.
But if you have scientific tendencies, if you want to properly test and compare flavors between between and brew ratios, it's not for you.
A prosumer electric machine will give you way more consistent results, although you won't be able to adjust pressure you'll still be able to adjust everything else.
And of course, if you want to steam milk then a lever machine can't do that either.
Well, I have good news and I have bad news for you, and they're the same thing:
An electric machine (other than the Decent) is not any more reproducible in terms of the outcome of the shot than a manual lever, and in many ways they're less reproducible. The reason is that the actual pressure the water is under is not the important thing, the important part of coffee extraction is how that water is flowing through the puck.
Due to just random happenstance configurations that the puck can settle into, applying the same pressure every time will not result in the same extraction every time. Someone skilled with a lever and who is used to knows what it feels like when a shot flows too fast or too slow can adjust the pressure on the fly to compensate, improving consistency.
The temperature drifting is by far the largest factor in reproducing the espresso shots not the water flow.
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lol, the pressure gauge is the sole reason I get more god shots from my Flair!
Oh for sure, it's much better to have it than not.
I agree but for different reasons. As a hardcore light/ultralight roast coffee nerd, I often recommend 'soup shots' over espresso. I've never owned an espresso setup, but the "soup shots" I've pulled with a $45 oxo brewer absolutely are in the ballpark of the best espresso shots I've had from the same roasts brewed with a traditional machine.
I love light roast+ espresso, even better with a lever machine that can handle high pressure and a thin stream of coffee
> Before you spend many thousands of dollars on a machine better suited to a coffee shop, consider getting a minimalist lever machine.
Agreed. I have a Pavoni Europiccola, and it's made approximately ~11,000 espresso shots (about half of those ended up as milk-based beverages). It makes excellent coffee, and I live in a place where there are a _lot_ of good coffee places around to compare to.
The maintenance is something I do myself, with a few small & inexpensive tools, and a few gaskets I need to replace. The machine will likely outlive me, which is a rare thing to say these days.
I have the same and love it. Another bonus of the Cafelat is no microplastics in my hot coffee. :)
> Before you spend many thousands of dollars on a machine better suited to a coffee shop, consider getting a minimalist lever machine.
Nope. I agree about enjoyment factor but still: no. Unless you are single and don't like cappu's.
With lever machines it's going like this: you turn it on, wait few minutes, pull espresso... and it is too cold. You pull second and third and those can be good but by 4th espressos are too hot so they are bitter. So it is time to turn off your lever mini-espresso machine... And milk frothing ? n/c
Oh, and boiler size in "lever" machines :) La Pavoni Stradivari is 16... But what you do when boiler is empty ? You have solid piece of metal with temp 90-100 C, how you like to unscrewing and refiling it ? :) And then 5 minutes of warming it to 90's again...
Now cost... 1k up to 2k dollars for lever. So when "many starts" ? For 2k-3k you have more available machines then you want to choose from :>
And belive me: you _want_ a plumbed one. So we are almost in "commercial" territory, there is no way around it.
There are now new generations of "lab" espresso machines but usually they are not cheaper then plain e61. And still some Rancilio made tank is preferable - Epocas are dirt cheap, almost :)
But if someone want cheap coffee gear then Chemex or Hario v60 is perfect option. Perfect! We use it almost daily at home. Or few times a day. :) Almost same amount of ritual like with Robot :)
Full agree on grinders - better one makes difference.
So, 20 years of coffee forums reading in one sentence: espresso machines need to be heavy and they costs.
In secret I can tell: Stradi is still on my wish list :)
And then there is one thing even or maybe especially commercial shops avoid: actual good coffee. You need to pay 2x or 3x or more for 1kg of coffee beans or you just serving black slops. Some chemistry you dilute with milk. Look it is easy to one-time pay 5k for some chrome machine but every day paying for good coffee beans is beyond most coffee shops on the globe...
Or just get a Moka pot, which is what most Italians use at home anyway. You can get a decent one for $30-50.
I have an espresso machine (or had, recently sold) as well as a moka pot as well as many other coffee making gadgets like a V60 and an Aeropress. They all make different types of coffee and are not comparable. Sometimes if you want true espresso you need to use an espresso machine.
Moka pots don't make espresso though. True espresso requires ~9 bars of pressure to make. Moka pots can create at max 1.5 bars (though optimally it would hover between 0.5 and 1 bar).
So while they make very good, rich, full-bodied coffee, it's just not espresso.
Not to detract from your point but the Bialettis also let you make a great cafecito
It may not be true espresso, but I will ask my Nona every day for an espresso made from her probably 30 year old bialetti. When I'm drinking Moka, it's more about the vibes anywho.
But they make horrible coffee, and can by design only brew at the wrong temperature.
The practical benefit is having basically zero parts.
We got a Flair manual espresso maker after our Gaggia Classic crapped out after a year (hard water buildup, probably). I de-scaled, replaced some parts, still didn't work.
You've got to disassemble the boiler and remove the scale from there. I run a Gaggia Classic at home with really hard water and my machine literally stopped flowing due to scale buildup. Once I fully pulled it apart and scraped all the scale out of the inside of the boiler it started running flawlessly.
https://greatinfusions.com/blog/great-infusions-coffee-blog/...
Would sound absurd to all but the nerdiest, most dedicated, but have you considered making your own water[0]?
[0] https://www.baristahustle.com/diy-water-recipes-the-world-in...
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Exact same thing happened to me, I sold the Gaggia and now I'm considering getting a manual one. The only issue is hot water as well as needing a separate steam wand, I wish there was an all in one solution for that.
Except it's not so easy to get your hands on one these days. They are constantly out of stock. (IIRC they are basically now hand made by a guy out of the UK).
I get the appeal of manual levers to espresso enthusiasts but would strongly dissuade beginners from starting with one. When you are learning to dial in a shot what you want is consistency and reproducibility which is the opposite of what you get with a manual lever.
Also it doesn't steam milk so you need to figure out a separate solution for steaming if you want to make a flat white/cappuccino/latte/etc.
That's not to say you should dump thousands of dollars into a La Marzocco, but there are plenty of entry level machines in the $300-500 range that would suit a beginner just fine.
The simple fact that there are terms like "beginner" used in this conversation shows that y'all are overthinking it.
It is about having a good coffee, not a professional sport.
China and Japan made whole rituals and philosophy around serving tea and there is a difference between novice and adept in that. People really nerding out on espresso are just repeating an old trend.
No milk though
They are fun but at the end of the day the deal breakers are "preheated water" and no steamed milk without more machines/gadgets. Kind of kills the entire point. That said, there are more advanced lever machines that have boilers built in.
>consider getting a minimalist lever machine
Before spending money on an espresso machine, make sure you have a good grinder first.
Before spending money on a good grinder, make sure you have access to reasonable good quality / priced beans in your area! Otherwise your OPEX really starts to go through the roof for shipping coffee (At least my area)
Before making sure you have access to good beans (had to carry on with the theme), make sure you actually want to have "coffee" as another hobby in your life. Maybe it's worth it to outsource to your local cafe the machine maintenance, grind fine-tuning, bean recipes, hours learning milk steaming, hours spent on youtube, coffee forums, commenting in the occasional HN coffee-adjacent articles...
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Before you buy beans, make sure you have good water first, as hard water can ruin coffee. There are literally products to demineralize water and also to add them back in for optimal water flavor for coffee.
>make sure you have access to reasonable good quality / priced beans in your area
Why? In which country can't you buy high-quality hipster single-origin beans online?
Second this! I have a $300 Flair and a $3000 Expobar (Brewtus) and yet sometimes I feel like I pull more god shots from the Flair than the Brewtus. I now recommend Flairs to everyone
When I moved to Europe years ago from the USA I was trying to decide if I wanted an all-in-one or an old-style arm one like you link (they were bigger though with lots of brass and just one arm). I ultimately went with the all-in-one (with ceramic grinders) because I realized I was so tired of grinding my coffee, packing it in, waiting for the espresso maker to warm up, having to stand there while the pump runs (I know this step is different), take the filter off and empty the grounds... if I needed to make 5 coffees for guests it was a big long ordeal. But my Italian all-in-one is super convenient but expensive but worth it. It's been twenty years now and I had to services just once. Select what I want to make, go off to my computer to login while it grinds the coffee, makes the coffee, go pick it up. Simple.
What machine did you get?
For what it is worth, I realized that superautos could make good espresso when in Italy in 2000 and got consistently good shots from the commercial superautos used in autostrada plazas. But those machines were serious equipment. Most home superautos I've tried have had a hard time producing good shots. But it can be done.
Gaggia Platinum Pro in 2010 (I guess 15 years, not 20). I got it half-off but new because my wife's company was switching employee espresso makers for the entire company and were selling off their stock.
If/when we redo our pantry I'm going to get a built-in one with a water hook-up. The biggest pain with the one I have now is having to refill the water every few days.
> a tactile experience that engages the senses
> make sure you have a good grinder first
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