Comment by dangus
5 hours ago
We can see this with the Lenovo Legion 2026 models. They literally perform worse than the 2025 models and cost more. Not only that, the build quality was cut for 2026.
I know Apple is escaping it due to their large contracts but I’m honestly not sure how at this point. They must have pre-purchased multiple years of memory or otherwise have a really insane contract.
But what’s puzzling about that is, why don’t other manufacturers have the same kind of deals? It’s not like Lenovo is a low volume supplier.
Obviously, the iPhone sells in volume unmatched by other devices. But still…I’d have to ask why other high-volume brands like Samsung have wildly expensive laptops.
It just seems like the other companies are asleep at the wheel and don’t have any passion for their strategy, to the point where a tiny company like Framework is overperforming just by caring a little bit. Sure, they can’t beat Apple on raw value but they at least they put together a laptop with a respectable trackpad and a CNC body. Where is volume leader Lenovo?
Apple doesn't only benefit from volume discounts on commodity parts, they also benefit from not having pay a margin on all the parts they designed in-house.
It's not like designing your own part is free, but Qualcomm charges a very healthy margin on top of their manufacturing costs.
Apple also invests in designing the tooling and processes used on their manufacturing lines.
For instance, they cut way back on how much CNC time was required to produce the Neo.
This has always been my question of why don’t companies just directly emulate Apple.
If lenovo is buying a billion chips a year, why can’t they lock in like Apple?
All big vendors will place orders some distance into the future. Lenovo does it, too.
You can't lock in prices forever, though. The more volume and stability you have, the more a vendor will be willing to enter long-term agreements with you. Lenovo has less volume than Apple and is not in as great of a financial position, so they don't have as much leverage.
The bigger factor is that Apple already had more margin in their products. The price premium for RAM upgrades on Apple laptops is large, as everyone knows. They could absorb more RAM price increases without being forced to raise retail prices.
> If lenovo is buying a billion chips a year, why can’t they lock in like Apple?
Lenovo controls less of the stack than Apple: CPUs (Intel/AMD), BIOS, operating system, etc. While ostensibly Apple and Lenovo are both selling personal computers, Lenovo is in a (sub-)segment of the market that is commoditized with Dell, HP, etc.
If you need to run Windows and associated (Windows-only) apps, what's special between Lenovo/Dell EMC/HP/etc? How much of a difference is there between Coke and Pepsi?
A lot of vendors hitched their wagon to the Wintel duopoly, and now they're all riding (or being ridden) herd.
I really don't understand why more companies don't emulate Apple in terms of line simplicity. Look at Dell for a great example of a sprawling product mix. I can't imagine having that many product varieties helps with profitability.
In the consumer space, I recently bought a Sonicare toothbrush, and the number of models and combinations is staggering. 1000x plaque removal, 750% plaque removal, it's ridiculous.
PC makers can't count on brand loyalty. If you want a PC and your favorite brand is missing something that a competitor has, it's easy to switch. If you want a Mac and Apple is missing something, it's harder to switch. Enterprise sales are a bit stickier, but not that much stickier.
So Dell, Lenovo, et Al end up trying to address every niche except the focused product catalog niche.
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Dell's claim to fame when they started was they could manage the complexity of a large product mix to get you want you really need. It is a lot of work, but their ability to manage that complexity it what makes them profitable.
Apple has a unique market position due to their OS. A buyer shopping for a Mac can't visit multiple vendors and compare models.
Dell and Sonicare do not have that luxury. They are competing with other PC vendors and other toothbrush vendors.
The strategy is to produce so many models that you appear to serve every price point and need without requiring the user to shop around. You can find something in their lineup that fits your budget or requirements if you look long enough and you don't feel like you need to go looking around at competing vendors as much.
Having may models isn't a high cost because they share so many parts. I bet if you opened multiple Sonicare toothbrushes they'd share many main components like batteries or motors. Dell has a few laptop and desktop lines but they're different combinations of parts within a shared chassis.
They can lock in. However that is risky too - if prices go down they are locked into the higher prices.
More importantly, if you have a locked in price you can sell your products for more profit - or you can sell the things that you have locked in and not have to make the rest of the widget at all. Sometimes someone will give you a good deal to buy out your locked in contract.
Because people continuously underestimate just how good Apple engineering and supply chain management is. And since iPhone and portables is such a juggernaut for them, it goes downstream into every other product line that uses the same architecture. That’s why it was so critical for them to pull off the ARM MacBook transition - the only other alternative for them essentially would have been to exit the market or run mostly at a loss.
Because Apple has the capital to take a loss on hardware indefinitely due to the App Store being their primary source of revenue?
The App Store is in no way Apple’s primary source of revenue.
Apple also makes healthy margins on its hardware products.
But if you read their actual financial reports they have never indicated in any way that their hardware is a loss leader. They disclose this information publicly since they are publicly traded. Yes, the services revenue is higher than Macs and iPads combined and is at a higher profit margin, but hardware also makes a lot of money.
Apple’s only structural advantage should be their custom silicon, but I don’t think that’s a cost advantage as much as it’s a performance and battery life advantage. Apple is still buying huge dies from TSMC and designing them custom themselves which is not cheap. Lenovo shares the cost of designing an Intel, AMD, or Qualcomm chip with dozens of OEMs. Same deal with software: I wouldn’t be surprised if macOS costs more per unit for Apple than Windows costs for Lenovo considering all the employees Apple hires directly to develop it.
Apple in theory should be paying a pretty similar amount of money to make the rest of their systems. They don’t make camera sensors, displays, keyboards, DRAM chips, or anything else themselves.
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Do they have anything like the same volume? Lenovo’s annual revenue is about half of Apple’s annual profit.
They don’t have the same profit margins but they are the #1 volume PC manufacturer in the world. They also own the Motorola smartphone business.
Apple is #4 in PC volume but they certainly make up for it with their smartphone volume.
And of course, they have a lot of service revenue to pad the balance sheet.
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Apple prioritizes price stability over price competitiveness. They will happily charge formerly eye-watering prices for extra RAM and their customers will less happily pay them. On the other hand, Apple rarely change their prices after release except in cases of extreme currency devaluation. They simply raise the price when the new model comes out.
They do this for their own reasons but it's helping them in this crisis. They can simply accept lower margins in the short term, in the knowledge that in the long term these price fluctuations even out.
From the perspective of the producers Apple are a consistent purchaser with deep pockets. AI companies may be willing to pay more for RAM in the short term, but Apple is a safer customer. The current AI bubble may or may not burst, but people will keep buying iPhones regardless. The producers do not want to freeze Apple out because Apple is their hedge against the bubble bursting.
Lenovo may not be a low volume purchaser but they are not at Apple's scale nor are Lenovo's customers willing to pay the premium that Apple's customers are.
I don’t think we’ve seen the lower margins in Apple’s financial reports.
Also, their computers have been getting more storage/RAM competitive as time has gone on. Literally just by time passing and prices staying the same.
Lenovo is beyond Apple’s scale when it comes to PC sales. They are #1 in volume. Apple is #4. Apple sells more iPhones but Lenovo does also own Motorola which is not nothing. We can also look at Samsung: a wildly high volume company who has their own production lines of major components like RAM and displays but they still sell their 2026 laptops at eye watering price increases.
Apple literally buys displays from Samsung.
Lenovo is beyond Apple’s scale, sure, but Apple has relatively few product lines. I imagine that makes it so the few parts they end up doing they have massive volume on.
Apple is also slightly decreasing their margins to maintain price. They can easily do this as their margins are 10x to 20x most of the industry.
Is that showing up in their financial disclosures?