As an amateur in the space: I download on Mac, run `ngspice`, "Error: Can't open display: :0". I look in the code - hardcoded X11-era assumptions. Not exactly modern affordances...
Then I try to understand and extract the actual formulas, and there isn't a clean formula layer anywhere. All is procedural, e.g. in `b4v6temp.c` formulas are tangled with branching, caching, model-state mutation. Extracting the computation, embedding cleanly and exposing through a sane API feels hair-pulling.
So yeah, maintained, but not as in 'modern, embeddable, understandable software component' I'd be looking forward in a rewrite. Maybe not even touch the simulation core, just rewriting Embedding/API layer and the UX would already be a big deal.
This explains a lot. But you merely need to look into the family of spice forks to realise, given the way that they're strangely limited to certain operating systems and embedded inside certain proprietary IDEs, that's there's something very wrong with the code architecture.
Why are you not using this through KiCad? That's what I would expect an amateur to do; especially since they handle the UX that you are complaining about.
And you are complaining about tangled code but that code is almost certainly hyper-optimized since performance actually mattered a LOT to people running spice simulations. ng-spice (and Spice3 and Spice2) were not written for programming ease; they were written to get a real job worth real money done.
In addition, any change you make to that code needs to be run back through numerical regression tests to make sure you didn't break things since this is software that people expect to get correct answers.
However, if the legacy seems to bother you so much, perhaps you should look at Xyce from Sandia?
> Why are you not using this through KiCad? That's what I would expect an amateur to do; especially since they handle the UX that you are complaining about.
They sound like an amateur at circuit design, not software engineering (which is how I'd describe myself too).
> And you are complaining about tangled code but that code is almost certainly hyper-optimized since performance actually mattered a LOT to people running spice simulations.
I can 100% guarantee you, that these are never mutually exclusive at all.
I could have linked Github repo which has been abandoned for 11 years and ranks higher on Google than the sourceforge page, but that would have maybe been disingenuous. (https://github.com/ngspice/ngspice)
I moved to codeberg and google still insists on linking SOLELY the old archived project on github. While of course snyk and such awful scanners mark them as abandoned because they don't know codeberg exists.
The spice core that ngspice is built off is terrible code. It has a long history going back to 1970s era fortran. Starting fresh is probably preferable
> The spice core that ngspice is built off is terrible code. It has a long history going back to 1970s era fortran. Starting fresh is probably preferable
That code is also hyper-optimized for performance. I sincerely doubt you are going to match the performance easily with any random rewrite.
Now, if you had a very clear idea of why the code was making assumptions from the 1990s that are no longer valid, then you might stand a chance of producing something that would outperform it. Or, perhaps, if you had particular knowledge of modern high-performance numerical libraries that you could apply to the problem, then you might be able to beat it.
However, circuit simulation is remarkably difficult to get right (stiff systems with multiple time constants are not uncommon) and generally resistant to parallelization (each device can have its own model which are a unique set of linear differential equations).
If, however, the legacy of ngspice bugs you that much, go look at Xyce and see if that is more to your taste.
As an amateur in the space: I download on Mac, run `ngspice`, "Error: Can't open display: :0". I look in the code - hardcoded X11-era assumptions. Not exactly modern affordances...
Then I try to understand and extract the actual formulas, and there isn't a clean formula layer anywhere. All is procedural, e.g. in `b4v6temp.c` formulas are tangled with branching, caching, model-state mutation. Extracting the computation, embedding cleanly and exposing through a sane API feels hair-pulling.
So yeah, maintained, but not as in 'modern, embeddable, understandable software component' I'd be looking forward in a rewrite. Maybe not even touch the simulation core, just rewriting Embedding/API layer and the UX would already be a big deal.
This explains a lot. But you merely need to look into the family of spice forks to realise, given the way that they're strangely limited to certain operating systems and embedded inside certain proprietary IDEs, that's there's something very wrong with the code architecture.
So, that would be an awesome project!
> As an amateur in the space
Why are you not using this through KiCad? That's what I would expect an amateur to do; especially since they handle the UX that you are complaining about.
And you are complaining about tangled code but that code is almost certainly hyper-optimized since performance actually mattered a LOT to people running spice simulations. ng-spice (and Spice3 and Spice2) were not written for programming ease; they were written to get a real job worth real money done.
In addition, any change you make to that code needs to be run back through numerical regression tests to make sure you didn't break things since this is software that people expect to get correct answers.
However, if the legacy seems to bother you so much, perhaps you should look at Xyce from Sandia?
> Why are you not using this through KiCad? That's what I would expect an amateur to do; especially since they handle the UX that you are complaining about.
They sound like an amateur at circuit design, not software engineering (which is how I'd describe myself too).
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> And you are complaining about tangled code but that code is almost certainly hyper-optimized since performance actually mattered a LOT to people running spice simulations.
I can 100% guarantee you, that these are never mutually exclusive at all.
I see "sourceforge" and immediately I think "this project is way behind time and is going to pose a lot of issues to new users, if it's still active".
I could have linked Github repo which has been abandoned for 11 years and ranks higher on Google than the sourceforge page, but that would have maybe been disingenuous. (https://github.com/ngspice/ngspice)
I moved to codeberg and google still insists on linking SOLELY the old archived project on github. While of course snyk and such awful scanners mark them as abandoned because they don't know codeberg exists.
I think this is highlighting the problem the poster you're responding to laments!
+1, a project presenting at FOSDEM certainly does not need a "revive".
The spice core that ngspice is built off is terrible code. It has a long history going back to 1970s era fortran. Starting fresh is probably preferable
> The spice core that ngspice is built off is terrible code. It has a long history going back to 1970s era fortran. Starting fresh is probably preferable
That code is also hyper-optimized for performance. I sincerely doubt you are going to match the performance easily with any random rewrite.
Now, if you had a very clear idea of why the code was making assumptions from the 1990s that are no longer valid, then you might stand a chance of producing something that would outperform it. Or, perhaps, if you had particular knowledge of modern high-performance numerical libraries that you could apply to the problem, then you might be able to beat it.
However, circuit simulation is remarkably difficult to get right (stiff systems with multiple time constants are not uncommon) and generally resistant to parallelization (each device can have its own model which are a unique set of linear differential equations).
If, however, the legacy of ngspice bugs you that much, go look at Xyce and see if that is more to your taste.
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That's not a revive though, revive (at least to me) implies it's dead.