I made the tragic mistake of getting a Bambu printer (an X1C, with AMS even...) right before they gave all of us the middle finger. I now have it offline, running out of date firmware, connected to a special WiFi network that is isolated from the Internet.
That upset me, but now I'm pissed. Now I don't even care about their stupid printers. Now I'd like to waste Bambu Lab's time and cause problems for them.
And also, while this X1C should be going strong for years, my eyes are on Prusa should I want another printer any time soon for any reason. Less polished or not, they seem like they're still better for consumers even though they are apparently less open than they used to be. But I'm of course interested in hearing what people recommend, too. (I got an X1C because I knew it would be simple, but I don't particularly mind getting my hands dirty or anything. I did build an Ender 3 kit before that.)
Once you have a reliable printer, the workflow is mostly to slice -> send to printer -> wait and check on it every couple of hours until it's done ime. Imo it no longer super matters how much better the on-screen ui or webcam are.
Mutli-color though is where Bambu has a good leg up.
(Diluted) Vision Miner Nano Polymer Adhesive and a good bed leveling probe has done a lot to make my printer set and forget, no matter which print sheets I use.
Wasn’t the main hassle in calibrarion and Bambu was good in that and is major reason for popularity? So ”once you have a reliable printer” is kinda big thing.
Can anyone in the commentariat recommend a great, locally available adhesive in Japan? Vision Miner is import-only and pricey. I’ve been using glue-sticks but am ready to level up as I’m moving away from PLA.
I don't trust it anymore. I'm using LAN mode today, I have little incentive to update. If I update to anything, it will certainly be third-party modified firmware.
I'm also in the same boat of regret, but for other reasons. Their support team is beyond awful. I purchased an H2S AMS combo just shy of two months ago (mostly because I saw it being praised by HNers a while back) and found out recently that the AMS they've sent me is defective. It's been truly a bizarre experience trying to deal with customer support. They told me to disassemble the AMS and swap a couple of modules that they mailed me. I did, provided them evidence that I did, and provided evidence that it didn't fix the problem. Their response was to claim that I didn't actually swap the modules and that because of that my warranty no longer applies, and then they said they'd give me a free roll of filament for my troubles (lol). At that point I began the process of invoking the consumer protections afforded to me. Called my credit card company and opened a dispute, invoked Massachusetts law M.G.L. c. 93A, and I'm about to contact my AG.
It's a shame they're going in such an anti-consumer direction, both with their gaslighting customer support and the lawfare against Orca.
The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act is your friend. Furthermore, the idea that you could be expected to perform technical labor to repair something is ridiculous: grandma is protected, too, and this type of service falls far outside the scope of what is reasonable.
Odd - I bought an H2C about a month ago - and the nozzle-swapping Vortek rack just wouldn't calibrate or operate - blocking even calibrating the left-nozzle from proceeeding.
However - yes, they did have me perform multiple disassembly/re-connect steps and document, and then of course every question/answer was at least a 24-hr turnaround (some delays were because I keep my printer at my office and chose to work from home a few times), eventually they sent me an entire new Vortek rack - which, once installed worked perfectly.
I was not looking forward to packing the entire thing up and shipping it back.
hmmm - they never asked for the old one back... (hmmm, harvest the servo motor? drag-chains and rods for other projects? Mount it on the wall and use it to store extra induction nozzles? Ideas?)
I have seen one YouTube video that seemed to indicate a problem with pulling filament was because of a little flap within the new 4-1 PTFE filament adapter. There is a little rubber valve/flap (apparently it is a consumable, because the printer came with extra) - which he found if left in-place would cause filament jams, so he removed it, and no more feed problems. (Unfortunately, I cannot find the exact video - I have seen/bookmarked too many)
I had the same experience with their shitty customer service but for something much smaller. I had red filament from bambu that was constantly getting clogged and they had me go through so many hoops. they had me measure the filament thickness in 10 places WITH CALIPERS and also FILM IT. all this shit was a waste of my time. After they asked for even more steps, I just gave up. I felt it wasn’t worth it for a $16 exchange.
But it left a really bad taste in my mouth about the company.
Consumers are used to stuff like Amazon customer service. I wasn’t expecting to waste all that time to exchange 1kg of filament. I thought they’d send it out no hassle and take back the defective filament to research it themselves.
So now when I recommend Bambu, I say the printers are great but their customer service is horrible. So be very careful.
> I was almost just like you I got some recommendations from HN, all of them were for Bambu.
Bambu has spent a ton of dough on paid advertising via YouTube shills (it is absolutely rampant in that scene - I like the channel Maker's Muse as a notable exception, who also has some funny videos up where he reads emails from various vendors trying to bribe or intimidate him in various ways), and many in the HN crows were happy to parrot their talking points to justify their purchases. A winning marketing strategy.
To this day you end up encountering a lot of people who are under the impression Bambu printers somehow made 3D printing accessible or are the only ticket to a problem-free experience. And you know, the product might do that, the problem is the message that they're the only game in town, which has never been true and which they largely achieved on the back of work already done by others for them in software, designs and ecosystem development.
To contrast this: You often hear this about Apple, that they didn't necessarily invent the stuff, but they did the last-mile integration really well. It's incomparable. Apple did far more work on their products than Bambu ever did.
You can use their slicer (which works well!). If you don’t want to, you can use one that sends through their Bambu Connect software, which Orca Slicer doesn’t want to support for…reasons. Or you can use it in LAN mode. Or you can just transfer the gcode via an SD card or flash drive like ye olde days.
Despite the tone of the other reply to your question, they are absolutely the easiest printers to work with. I don’t love their new multicolor solution for how slow it is compared to other options, but that would be the only real fault with their newest line.
After my initial Ender 3v2 (which was my entry point to 3D printing, but a terrible printer otherwise), we bought a Prusa even thought it was much more expensive than Bambu because we wanted to support a European company and because as a European company they are under the GDPR.
It has been absolutely great and low-effort. I haven't needed it yet, but their printers seem to be focused on easy maintenance by their owners.
Meh. I use bambu and I am a maker but it's not a big thing in my opinion.
I bought a bambu precisely because I don't want to mod the thing with a gazillion custom upgrades like I needed to do with my previous printers to make them work reliably. I just want to press print and... print. Bambu totally delivers there. They really commoditised 3D printing and brought the price down. And if you do want to go off the beaten track they have options.
My hobby is not 3D printer tinkering. It's printing stuff to use. This is clearly what bambu market towards and they do the job really well. I know many people in the makerspace community that spend weeks tuning their perfect Klipper setup. Cool but I prefer spending those weeks perfecting my designs instead. It's hard to overstate the difference they made in out of the box capability especially for the price. And their spare parts are decently priced too.
Now if they start locking down the consumables like other evil companies like 3D Systems and Da Vinci XYZ did then yes. Then they deserve all the blame they can get.
The orcaslicer thing I don't know what to think about yet (I have to read up on it) but the discussion here was more about the local mode.
Ps Bambu isn't the only brand I have. But I do like what they've done. It was exactly what I needed.
My daughter is an architecture student and needed a 3d printer to help with making models for her studio class. She had no desire to learn the ends and outs of 3d printers. She wanted something easy to use and reliable. The Bambu Labs printer I bought her has been just that.
> Bambu totally delivers there. They really commoditised 3D printing and brought the price down.
Prusa's MK3S delivered consistently good, zero fuss, straight out of the box prints with auto bed leveling for $999 before Bambu labs even existed at all.
Bambu brought Core XY & multi-filament to the "mainstream" (for however mainstream 3D printing is at all), absolutely, but if you just wanted a 3D printer that consistently worked for an affordable price? Prusa beat them to that by years. They just didn't advertise the shit out of it on YouTube like Bambu did.
Prusa unfortunately then kinda just... relaxed? Not sure what happened, but MK3 -> MK4 was pretty meh, the XL was delayed, the Core One a good response but still lacking on the multi-material front, etc...
Dude, the only reason you can be a maker is because of the many hours of work provided by the open source community. The very same one your support is trampling on since it's in favor of a company profiteering from them. All because you don't want to be inconvenienced.. Educate yourself on the issue and start having some respect.
Speaking about Prusa, my experience has been that they’re very condescending to users.
Extremely basic features (like serial printing) are considered “nice to have”. Some tickets have remained open for over 6 years now and ignored by prusa:
It is well-known that Prusa is rather slow and hesitant to implement new features in their firmware because they really want new features also to work on their very old printers if possible. And Prusa really wants to avoid introducing regressions with new firmware versions (even though they are not perfect regarding this).
Thus, because of this basically promise by Prusa, the pace with which new features become available is much slower.
Prusa is for people who really want their 3D printers supported for a very long time.
Same experience. Wanted to get an X1C after I had saved enough, then I was lucky enough to be able to send it back within the 2 weeks time frame. I live in the EU so I was able to demand the refund.
Now I am rebuilding my old Ender 3 with Openbuilds parts into a CoreXY setup, all metal hotend, sturdier metal frame, and the newer RAMPS board with a raspberry pi and klipper setup. Don't know enough about the multi tool related things, but maybe I am gonna focus on that afterwards.
I am having tons of fun while doing so, it has been quite a while since I rebuilt my Anet A8 into an AM8 with a custom Marlin firmware back then.
> my eyes are on Prusa should I want another printer any time soon for any reason.
Have Prusa finally fixed their engineering? Prusa basically sitting inert on the engineering front is what allowed Bambu to leapfrog them.
Bambu made real engineering improvements: linear slides, servomotor for feed, accelerometer tuning, etc. Has Prusa finally decided to compete again? A lot of us are willing to give a company more money for being open source, but the basic product can't be too significantly inferior.
It looks like there is at least one linear slide on the Prusa Core One+ so that's a start...
Bambu won with relentless free giveaways to every YouTuber on the planet, cheap prices, and a consumer friendly looking design.
I don’t think they earned it.
I suspect there is a huge number of people out there who bought them who don’t even know what else exists. They saw a YouTuber advertise one on a video making something and decided to buy that.
>
Have Prusa finally fixed their engineering? Prusa basically sitting inert on the engineering front is what allowed Bambu to leapfrog them.
This was the time when Prusa produced the MK3... printers. The MK4S was already a huge step forward: in my opinion - privacy topics aside - already better than Bambu's offerings for some applications (even though these applications were possibly not the ones that the masses care(d) about).
The Core One+ and the Core One L that were released after that are really good printers. Also the Prusa XL is a great printer for what it has been designed for if you give it some maintenance love (note however that the Prusa XL was from a time when less people wanted to print filaments that strongly profit from a heated chamber, so the Prusa XL was - in opposite to the Core One and Core One L - not designed with a focus on this).
But.. the good news is that any future potential buyers ( like me ) know to avoid that particular vendor. The issue, as it appears to be common lately, is that the number of buyers gets smaller and smaller as regulatory frameworks get more and more onerous. Otoh, I am more than happy to lend a helping hand. This is probably as good of a fight as it gets.
I was lucky enough to have seen the initial controversy and install the X1Plus firmware on my X1C about 2-weeks before lockdown. It has worked flawlessly with OrcaSlicer ever since. For monitoring when I am away from my office, I setup VPN, HomeAssistant and could do it from my computer - but there was also a "Bambu Companion" app released pretty quickly in that timeframe (there are probably others now) which allowed my to replace the "Bambu Handy" functionality on my phone.
So - of course, I swore I would not buy another Bambu. But, when looking at the various pricing and other aspects of competitors - about a month ago I did end-up buying an H2C with double-AMS and an HT - mainly to reduce filament waste, have a larger build volume, be able to use multi-materials for support "quickly" and have active chamber heating for more "engineering" type filaments. Don't believe the hype about the chamber filter though - I have found with ABS, you still need external exhaust or air filtering as even though the chamber "closes" and recycles via the filter, you still have the "poop chute" venting fumes...
... and of course... even if I wanted to switch to LAN-mode, unfortunately OrcaSlicer does not yet support the H2C... perhaps it never will unfortunately...
If you’re eyeing Prusa, that’ll probably be ideal.
...but it does look like Sovol is teasing an INDX alternative (I have a Sovol SV08, it’s a “good value” tinkerer printer based on the Voron)
And if you really want “open”, there’s isn’t much better than a Voron in that aspect.
Bambu showed their true colours last year when they would've eliminated offline access altogether if not for public outrage. You don't own your Bambu printer, you're leasing it at a subsidised premium.
This move does not surprise me at all, and I'm genuinely happy that Louis is willing to shell out money to help those that can't defend themselves.
I'm happy that Bambu finally made Prusa care, but I will not cheer them even if they consistently innovate. It's just sad.
I bought a Prusa several years ago that I had a rollercoaster of feels on. It's reliable, works great, but also cost me $900. For the next 3 years or so I was wondering whether I should have just bought a $250 Bambu and gotten almost same results. Now I'm happy I didn't.
Both friends with Bambu printers bought them because they were cheaper than Prusa, and they wanted "a tool, not a hobby" (which I think is marketing invented to disparage an open source, repairable printer).
Three years later, they have unreliable printers that are difficult to maintain.
I have a five year old Prusa, still working very nicely, and it's still a tool and not itself a hobby.
And the yet again I got told over and over again that Bambu didn't really mean to, and if they did they learned their lesson, and after all you can still keep them offline. And spending more for a prusa obviously is silly.
I'm really getting too old dealing with morons who didn't learn anything after the same patterns repeating for decades now.
I'm honestly not getting the complaint here. Bamboo Lab forced competitors to step up and actually produce good products. Now that there are many Bamboo Labs competitors you are no longer dependent on Bamboo Labs anymore.
I'd love for this pattern to repeat for eternity.
If anything this is the good ending to the story. The rise and fall of a giant.
Louis is one of the most passionate YouTubers you can watch. I don't think he gets it right 100% of the time, but when you are that vulnerable (and what appears to be authentic) you're bound to not make the the right call every once in awhile (as we all do).
I support him even though people can pick him apart.
As a matter of fact he's a never-ending source of drama and outrage, all of which are his own opinions. His repair channel isn't even about repair anymore, it's all drama, all the time. I can hardly believe people fall for his shtick anymore.
90% of his content is about advocating for consumer rights like ownership and repair, most of which is documented and sourced on his wiki [1]. If the only thing you see here is "drama and outrage" then you're not the target audience and you should return to mindless consumption until such a time that you find yourself affected.
I have trouble understanding how the opinions of the historical right to repair guy are surprising or even considered drama, it’s not drama because it’s not interpersonal gossip, it’s right to repair activism.
Right up there with the Not Just Bikes guy on YouTube who used to talk about how transit-oriented cities are great or would show some positive stuff from somewhere. Now it's just endless videos about how cars suck, cities suck, even a lot of transit sucks. The constant negativity is such a put-off.
Yeah I agree, it’s almost a political drama channel at this point and his opinions lack nuance.
I don’t understand why an article from Tom’s Hardware about an opinion of Louis Rossman who tells a 3D printer maker to go fuck themselves is currently the most upvoted article on HN.
I am completely against the outrage and drama cycle of all media. But as a matter of fact, this is clearly what drives views in today’s world so it’s nice when someone consistently getting millions of views at least chooses to support something good once in a while.
I much prefer channels that don’t use this way of gaining views, but they, because of that, don’t gain nearly as many views.
I have no skin in this game, but it’s pretty clear what the majority of viewers want.
His passion does manifest as drama 90% of the time, but it’s somewhat necessary to build momentum and attention to the causes that he promotes.
Also, he has to toe the line of opinion to avoid being slapped with spurious legal challenges.
I often find him a bit much myself, but don't doubt his passion, and even if I did, I would only express that opinion publicly accompanied by supporting evidence, because using phrases like "people fall for his shtick" is essentially implying deliberate fraud, and that doesn't seem to be something you should throw around lightly.
I don't think an opinion becomes more based in reality by sticking the words "As a matter of fact" in front of them.
Although I have to say, I think Louis was making better videos when he was in New York. I understand the financial situation where New York really abuses people, but I am just looking at the videos. I can't say whether that decision was what changed, but I noticed that the content changed a lot once he relocated outside of New York.
However had, I disagree with the "drama" comment. I would call it more that the movement became more important, which is fine, in my opinion. Right to repair isn't that different from many other movements where we people try to get more rights back again. See the right to videotape public officials in performing their public jobs and so on. It is all connected.
When there is drama as far as I can tell he always had pretty solid reasons to be dramatic. It isn't drama when you have real reasons. Drama implies making shit up. Point to the shit he made up. Go ahead. Be specific.
Your accusation there makes it sound like he makes up some minor personal issues and blows them up as rage bait. As if the lock in and enshittification he advocates against are just his personal opinion. They are not. The vast majority (last time I checked >80%) of the public shares the opinion that you should own the equipment you buy and that it should be repairable.
If you happen to be a person that tries to establish neo-feudalism at the cost of everybody else, a public figure successfully making that an issue, might be problematic for your goals, sure. But then your goals may just be beneath contempt anyways and you should working on becoming a productive member of society instead.
If you think it is a shtick because you haven't really looked into it that much and you have a contrarian reflex, maybe try to bring the receipts next time. You know, like:" Louis Rossmann is a drama queen because remember when he said X about Y? Remember when he said Y about Z? It turned out to be Q and Louis had to know it was Q" etc.
Rossmann turned his YouTube fame into political advocacy for a popular topic, that he politically represents. Don't like that topic? Don't watch his content. People change and so does the focus of their life.
I run an university electronics workshop and the issues he mentioned are the issues I have to deal with every week, be it some shitty vendor lock-in on some gear or equipment where just the part that dies first is proprietary and service-hostile.
Thank you. My Bambu printer works excellently. The previous one I bought years ago is still going strong with a friend now. When parts wear out, I can easily get official, known quality replacements.
I have never had a problem with the software, the outrage is totally manufactured to have something to complain about. Louis was fun to listen to for a while, but his schtick is so tired now.
I don’t recognize the name and for some reason the article never gives a single sentence of context just expecting you to know the same way things expect you to know who Trump or Taylor Swift is.
I even watch a few 3D printer and maker YTers, but I guess not him.
He isn't specifically related to the 3D printing or maker space (in this sense) niches. He got popular at first for repairing Apple devices that Apple Stores claimed were unrepairable or quoted enormous repair fees for. He made videos about those cases, and then transitioned into right-to-repair efforts in general. He also started the Consumer Rights wiki: https://consumerrights.wiki/w/Main_Page
His channel isn't really about 3D printing or maker projects, which is maybe why you have not heard of him.
He has (or had, not sure) an electronics repair shop where he showed laptop and phone repairs on his channel. Recently he is one of the people who push right to repair regulations and consumer rights. Which is probably why he is interested in this case.
Louis Rossman is right for repair activist and consumer rights advocate. He's an owner of a repair shop, that's mostly focused on fixing macbooks.
On Youtube he started by posting repair tutorials, but then his content shifted from repair videos to macbook rants to him lobbying for right to repair law across many US states to covering general anti-consumer practices and offering money and support to people who fight against it.
I mean, that's sort of all it is, some dude ranting on his YouTube channel. Often "reacting" to some other dudes rant. Closely related to the format of a bunch of bros "podcasting".
> I don't think he gets it right 100% of the time, but when you are that vulnerable (and what appears to be authentic)
Saying anything less than glowingly positive about Rossmann is dangerous due to his fan base, but I think this mentality of pre-forgiving his misinformation is not healthy.
Being passionate and putting on a vulnerable schtick shouldn’t excuse someone from misleading their large audience.
Rossman is a drama YouTuber, like many others. This is an entire YouTube genre. Most of them have the same schtick where they appear to be the most passionate, vulnerable, on-your-side narrator of a story. His schtick is common in the drama YouTuber genre.
You shouldn’t develop such a parasocial relationship with a person that you reflexively defend every topic they engage in. Discuss the topics each on their own factual merits and be prepared to look for second sources. Don’t align yourself with someone because they are passionate and appear “vulnerable”. At the end of the day, you need to remember that putting on this display is how he makes his money. It’s a show.
I dont see how he is “like many others”. A lot of YouTubers cover controversy for controversy sake, or just as material for another sponsored video. He does not do sponsored content, and usually seems to push for something concrete around consumer rights. So I think the comparison to other drama Youtubers is unfair.
In my view, the drama is more a way to draw attention to his activism. He does tend to put his money and time where his mouth is.
But perhaps my view is biased, since I only see the videos the YouTube algorithm suggests to me, and those may be the ones that are more focused on consumer rights than drama. Still, that has consistently been my impression.
This is an uncharitable take. Rossman has actual repair expertise, founded the consumer rights wiki to help organize activists that want to forward right to repair, and attends public meetings to discuss these topics with local governments. His YouTube channel raises awareness, but there's a lot of substance behind the style.
It would help if he wouldn't throw fits like a high schooler in a lot of his videos. For his brand and for the causes he champions. Its almost only drama on his channel now.
OrcaSlicer supports Bambu printers already. Does anyone have any better sources for what this other fork supposedly did?
EDIT: I’m not going to sit through another angry Louis Rossmann video, but from what I can see someone tried to make a branch of OrcaSlicer that interacted directly with Bambu’s private cloud APIs to impersonate Bambu Studio. I don’t agree with the legal threats but this case is about connecting to their non-public cloud APIs, not connecting to the printer directly.
Where is the proof for that? I am interested in learning more about the network plugin! I was under the impression it did not use any AGPL code at all, and that it basically just talked HTTP.
Some time ago the printers were able to communicate over both cloud and local protocols. Then, in a firmware update, they created distinct modes for those. You can still use the printers with OrcaSlicer, but in a mode that prevents being controlled by cloud too.
This is a feature. When I enable LAN mode I do not want Bambu to be able to control my printer.
It remains astonishing to me that this is controversial. Not everyone has the knowhow to block internet access to their printer, so having a toggle in firmware is terrific. I've verified after turning it on that it never phones home. Couldn't be happier.
No, it doesn't. It used to, but then Bambu Labs "for security reasons" (as always) removed access to their "network plugin".
There is a lot of confusion around this, so: you lose access to bambu cloud, so quick upload, remote printing, remote monitoring of prints, synchronization of filament data, and lots of other useful features.
You get a half-baked "throw it over the wall" way of sending files to your printer using a standalone Bambu executable (largely neglected). Note that this does not provide a way to synchronize the filament list to your slicer before slicing, which is useful and important.
You also get a "developer/LAN mode", which is an either/or proposition. If you turn it on, you lose cloud features. No more remote monitoring of your prints using your phone.
I find it very annoying that Bambu managed to implant this shallow take of "you can use LAN mode so things are fine" in people's minds.
I just use the bambu plugin to home assistant and I have 90% of the relevant cloud functionality.
Is it perfect or the ideal solution? Not quite, but it does let me have a fully local bambu printer with any theoretical calling home blocked at a network level.
Very useful comment. I’ve had an A1 Mini for a year now and it has been my favourite purchase in years. Like when I got my first mobile phone, I feel like I’ll have some sort of 3d printer for the rest of my life. Bambu made it super easy and inexpensive for this to happen.
I’m completely against bullying and attempts to lock out open source software from using 3d printers directly; if they locked out OrcaSlicer from direct control I’d have a big problem with that.
But trying to interact directly with Bambu’s private infrastructure/APis seems reasonable for Bambu to block. I think a cease and desist might backfire on Bambu but i don’t think it’s unreadable. (Didn’t watch the video. Just getting context from parent comment. )
It's not like you have a choice, the printer doesn't work locally unless you enable LAN mode, and then it only works locally. Bambu make you pick either "closed servers" or "the mobile app doesn't work" for no reason.
I'll chip in to this developer's legal defense fund because I want to be able to do whatever I want with my printer, and "I can't do what I want with my printer" is a bigger problem for me right now than "the developer made a TCP connection on my behalf to a server he didn't own".
> But trying to interact directly with Bambu’s private infrastructure/APis seems reasonable for Bambu to block.
Even if they have taken away other routes that used to exist so that this is the only way?
I've also been very happy with my A1 (bought ~18 months go), and have since bought a U1 (which has networking problems of its own, but is otherwise a great upgrade) alongside it. Unless Bambu changes its tack significantly I'll not be buying another of their machines or more of their materials¹.
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[1] well, maybe the light grey PLA as I've not yet found anything similar enough easily available in the UK, and it is perfect for prints that I want to look neutral or for some scifi ships & similar…
The motive appears to be to get tax credits as opposed to becoming a full-on patent troll, though with how quickly China is speedrunning their version of capitalism I would not be surprised if it turns into patent trolling.
Their behaviour overall is really giving me mixed feelings, because the Bambu A1 I have is an absolutely amazing machine for the price, and I've been casually in this since the Printrbot days.
If you invent something and publish it (including by offering it to the public in product) your work constitutes prior art and is an absolute bar against the subsequent (valid) patenting of the invention by a third party. F2F vs F2I has no impact on this.
What F2F means if that if two people working in secret create the same invention and show up at the patent office at the same time-- the first one to file gets it. The earlier F2I scheme instead had a contest where the party that is the most ambitious in fabricating lab notebooks to backdate their invention gets the patent.
Because of a poor choice in naming many people wrongfully assume F2F means you can go pick up other people's inventions out of the public sphere and claim them as your own because you filed first.
The misunderstanding is exacerbated because fraudulently patenting other people's inventions is commonplace-- as there is no consequence for doing so except losing the patent after getting defeated on review/litigation-- but the practice isn't meaningfully influenced by F2F vs F2I.
Definitely gives me second thoughts about getting one. They look like easiest way to get into 3d printing as a tool (rather than another hobby), but their recent attitude just makes me think I should suffer a bit less advanced product just to not have to deal with that shit.
There's some drama, and they did some wrong calls. But the hardware is still really fantastic (as a X1C owner). If you want to have some things printed and don't necessarily want fine tuning your printer as a hobby, I highly recommend it.
Same. I don't care about the online connectivity or whatever, I just print a few personal things every month so the convenience and reliability far outweigh any cons for me.
RE: 3D printer as a tool, I recommend Teaching Tech's video (1) as a guide to choosing the right 3D printer. His first question is "Will you use your 3D printer as a tool or a hobby?", followed by the priorities that flow from that choice, e.g. pretty looking prints, or accurate parts that fit together.
It is definitely a philosophy you have to buy into, in the same way that people accept the iPhone's walled garden. (I have several Bambu Lab printers and have been an iPhone user for 17 years)
Honestly I don't regret going with Bambu. Yes they suck in a way I get it. However the time and money I spent into my ender to keep it barely alive is all wasted compared to these machines that just run perfectly out of the package.
Sure prusa is fine too, and other brands might are getting there too. But if you want to print as a tool I would recommend to just use the tool nearly everyone is agreeing on.
I didn't regret it once, and have 3 printers at this point (2 of which free thanks to Bambu points)
Also I am still amazed that my $150 A1 mini is basically just as good as the X2D or P2S.
That comes with a big caveat. You can either choose to use the printer offline, or online, with no ability to use both. If you want the ability to monitor or pause a print when you're not home on the off chance something goes wrong, you HAVE to send every print through their cloud, there's no middle ground.
That's not Bambu being open, that's them doing the absolute minimum to allow people to say "you can use Bambu printers fully offline" in comment sections.
You can put your printers in LAN Mode to not use their cloud. You just have to choose one or the other, and the software in question enabled features they didn't want unless you ran off their cloud.
I don't have a Bambu; previously, I had Prusa printers from the MK3 generation and I struggled to get good prints (poor bed adhesion and the extruder breaking frequently, requiring very intensive repairs); since not having a working printer slows my hobbies down, I ended up with two. Both broke down and I got tired of fixing them, but when I looked at the prices of new Prusa, they were high enough to make me pause.
Instead of a Bambu, I got a Flashforge Adventurer 5M. It is incredibly cheap (cheap enough that I am more than happy to replace it after two years if it stops working), and is pretty reliable (compared to the Prusa MK3 and MK3S I had), and most of all, the self-calibration works well enough that I don't spend any time debugging prints that fail at the first layer anymore; I just re-run calibration and it's fine, and if it's not fine, I clean the plate and it works.
It also comes with a terrible slicer (dervied from Slic3r I believe) with annoying "log into the cloud every time you start the app", but I moved to OrcaSlicer. I had to give up a few nice features but it hasn't truly impacted my workflow. And it does receive firmware updates (it's connected via wifi to my home network). My hope- just a hope- is that they don't do anything truly stupid with future firmware updates or end up getting in a hissy fit with prominent youtubers.
To steelman their use case, Bambu has marketed themselves as the most approachable way to get into 3D printing. In addition to their low prices, that includes ease of setup, and ease of going from a model on their website to a physical object in your hand. If you're already getting the model from their website (and realistically, the overwhelming majority of 3d prints are downloaded), then having their online software ecosystem handle everything for you just reinforces that approachability.
But realistically, because if they control how you use your machine, they can start skimming profit off of those digital services every time you print something. That's only works if they have control over how you use the machine in your house.
The RFID reading of their Bambu brand filament spools sure is convenient... for now. Give it a few more years and you might not be able to print non-bambu filament. The hardware side is fully equipped for this bullshit, just takes one more braindamaged MBA to have a Great Idea
Remote device control allows for running and monitoring prints from another networks with zero effort, but more importantly local device control can't be monetized. It's just about the money.
Almost every hardware manufacturer on Earth is convinced that the only way for an application to communicate with a device on my LAN is to round-trip through some centralized (always manufacturer-run) server.
Remote device control allows for running and monitoring prints from another networks with zero effort
To reiterate the GP's question: why would I want to do that? In practice whenever I want to monitor anything from anywhere, I just VNC or RDP to my PC.
If it's just about ease-of-use, as the other replies suggest, and not actually gating the functionality of the hardware, I'm having trouble understanding the outrage. It sounds as if they are trying to be the Apple of 3D printing, while also still supporting "sideloading." If the hardware itself isn't locked down, why does anyone care what they do with their cloud service?
OTOH, if the hardware is locked down, then that's what people should be complaining about, not an optional cloud service.
So obviously it's not necessary at all, but Bambu built their entire brand on ease of use - the app allows you to pick from thousands and thousands of premade models and send them to your printer directly from the app. Judging by the Facebook Bambu groups, most people never bother with installing PC Bambu Studio. And because phones don't necessarily have the raw power to slice the model on device, it's sent to their servers for slicing to fit your printer and filament type.
So it's a nice to have thing, but it could have very easily been optional. Instead they made it so that every print, even ones sent from Bambu Studio, has to go through their servers(unless you enable Lan mode)
I work with the Smoothieware project. The V1 Smoothieboard was one of the first (the first I am aware of) with an ethernet connection.
It was always stated by our devs that it should never be connected to anything but a local network. Why? Because you are supposed to be there running the printer...it is a fire hazard otherwise. People do run unattended, myself included, but it should not be advised or hyped as a "good idea".
The possibility of a hack was always there too. What could a malicious actor do with access to your machine?
The advice was not only ignored...but used as an advertising point to show how innovative they are.
Amazing how fast everyone forgot the time Bambu forced a firmware update which caused a large number of printers to begin printing uncommanded which in some cases caused damage due to completed prints still sitting on the bed. [1]
V2 Smoothieware has the ability to auto update firmware via network...but it is a command that requires the user to send.
At any rate...this matters to me little anymore. My printer is a decade old and going strong still. I have no desire to "purchase" any printer. I would just build another if needed.
The biggest lie sold by the marketers is that working on your printer is "lost time". Personally...I am glad I had the 2011 RepRap struggles. I would never give up my opensource hardware for a "cheaper" machine.
[1] I searched for old webpages on this...can't seem to find them anymore using google. It was a very well known issue in the 3d printing community at the time though.
This isn't defending Bambu, and it's not an ELI5 because, whether you meant it sarcastically or not, the easy answer to your question is "you do not need to connect to a cloud service to use a 3D printer".
Bambu Labs however, has chosen to market their printers with an app that provides a "one-stop shop" for all things 3D-printer. You can browse their version of Thingiverse (or Printables or Cults 3D) and send jobs directly to your printer. You can also access your printer remotely (read outside your home network without tunnelling/port-forwarding/VPNs) to monitor prints, get notified when a print is done, get notified you've run out of filament, watch the printer work if it's equipped with a camera, etc. etc.
Bambu has been attempting to remove features that enable easy local (not-internet-connected) use cases and force everyone to use the cloud, etc. Or at least make it as painful as possible to skip the cloud.
Relevant context: X1C owner who did not update the firmware that forced bambu's "secure printing" workflow on users that previously used their local network "plugin".
I stopped using Handy, blocked the printer's access to the internet, and ultimately, did not miss a thing. The printer continued to work fine with my slicer of choice (softfever's fork of Bambu Lab studio's fork of Prusa Slicer's fork of slic3r, now known as OrcaSlicer).
Like most things these days, they make a decent printer, but are part of tech's steadfast march to control everything. The twist is that they're in a space defined very much by breaking control.
> Can someone explain to me like I'm 5, why you would need to communicate with a cloud service to use a 3D printer?
Using a cloud service means all your designs are submitted to Bambu and that means that they have the ability resell this intelligence information to the CCP and friendly entities, subsidizing the cost of their products and allowing Bambu to achieve unprecedented price/performance.
You don't really, but the entire ecosystem is quite ergonomic for people who don't want to fiddle with software, connections, config, permissions, etc. and Just Print something.
Not defending Bambu. The UX is quite straightforward and easy, however.
Should we start with an explanation of why you would need to communicate with an IP network to use a 3D printer? Is it impossible to just plug in a USB connection and print?
Sure. I think I can explain the advantage of that.
With an Internet connection to their clown, a Bambu Labs printer doesn't require a person to deal with computers in the traditional sense. Like, at all.
The printer can be over there on the table, and a person can use it while sitting on their sofa with the cell phone that's in their hand. There's nothing else required for this to happen. They can browse models, customize them some, and print them all from their phone.
In this way, a person doesn't even need to know how to use a PC in order to casually print some widgets at home.
They don't need to know how networks or VPNs or open Internet-facing ports work, either. They can monitor then print job from anywhere without doing that stuff at all.
They don't need to plug a USB cable in. They don't need to know what an SD card even is.
Head outside, away from wifi? No worries: The printer still works the same whether the user's pocket supercomputer is inside, outside, at the grocery store, or anywhere else.
And for a lot of folks, that's pretty nice. My nephew, for instance, consistently prints amazingly-clean parts with his Bambu Labs machine and he puts zero effort into doing so. For him, at least, It Just Works.
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I can see why some folks in this particular audience may have some trouble appreciating the utility of this kind of apparent simplicity. After all, if there's anything that typifies someone on HN, it is that we're all avid computer users.
But we're weird in this way. Most people are not like this at all.
And to be clear: I myself have zero interest in cloud-oriented 3D printing. But I'm of the weirdest subset: I build my own 3D printers because I enjoy the process of solving the problems that are involved in doing so. If I want to control a printer from my phone from 3 states away, then I'll get that done on my own.
I’m so torn about bambulabs. Prusa needs to redesign their core one so it doesn’t use 3D printed parts (I get how that’s part of their philosophy but it’s not working anymore), $400 cheaper, and have a reliable AMS system. There’s just no other brand that can compete with Bambulab right now in terms of price vs performance.
A classic ploy by Chinese commercial companies: offer a 'free-to-play' model with extremely high lock-in costs, all while claiming they’re just lowering the barrier to entry for your own good.
Does anyone know if there is another printer manufacturer that has an equivalent to the Bambu A1S with it's custom AMS system. I don't think people realize how good that printer and AMS system is (the AMS system for the X1C pales in comparison), and I'd love to support another company, but haven't really seen another bed slinger with the simple center-rotating AMS style system seen on the A1S AMS. For context I run a business where I sell 3d printed parts for old film cameras - and the A1S is a workhorse.
The main thing keeping me from making the multi-material jump is the waste. I have a couple Vorons and would love to be able to print with different materials at the same time, but the waste with the current solutions is so egregious.
I don't know what the A1S is (did you mean the A1 or the P1S?) but the Snapmaker U1 is on my wishlist. More expensive than either but eliminates the AMS waste by using multiple toolheads. Open firmware, most of Bambu's convenience features.
I have to say the Bambu A1 Mini has been a game changer for me. I wouldn't own a 3D printer otherwise. While it doesn't really "just work" as the hype would have it (I believe this is impossible with current tech), it comes pretty damn close. Probably the printer that does it best.
I didn't want another hobby, fiddling with settings and materials, and generally going down the 3D printing rabbit hole. I just wanted to print stuff for my actual hobbies. And the A1 does this, with little fuss, for which I am forever grateful.
I have the A1 Mini as well. Mostly having sat unused since I bought it a few years back, I'm now wondering if the thing will function normally again. Any advice on basic "cold boot" maintenance? It's been a year since I last turned it on.
Shouldn't require much. Very light oil (ideally the oil that came with it) on the rails, wash the removable build plate with basic soap and water (may be dusty from sitting), and then run a test benchy to clear out any filament in the hotend.
So much of this opinion sounds like a Bambu ad read from YouTube, as if they're the only ones making printers that just work now, like a Prusa can't crank out perfect first layers without breaking a sweat.
The A1 Mini was my first printer, which is of course biases my opinion of other printers.
I've bought many, many other printers since then, and every time I've gotten something other than a Bambu Lab printer I've been disappointed, and ended up returning them or selling them.
Creality's K1 Plus was great, but regularly needed the extruder disassembled to get broken filament out.
Anycubic Kobra 3 Max regularly failed to keep prints on the bed. I bought 2 Elegoo Centauri Carbons. The first has been out of commission since the extruder went haywire, and I couldn't get replacement parts without going through some random support chat app, and the 2nd one's build plate delaminated the first weekend I had the printer.
The Snapmaker U1 I'm pretty happy with, but when I first got it, I learned you have to be very gentle with how you put the spools on, as it can pop an internal plastic panel off with interferes with the Y-axis.
Prusas are good, but price and availability are issues (I bought all the above new at my local Microcenter). I do have an older Prusa MK3 that I bought for an pellet extruder conversion, but for a printer with no online capabilities and a need to manually level it via paper, it cost more used than a new Bambu Lab P1S. I'm okay with putting your money where your ideology is, but imagine if the only alternative to an iPhone's walled garden was a $2000 Android.
As I said in my comment, the Bambu is the printer that made me try. Every other video or review I've seen, from multiple enthusiasts who use other brands, makes it clear any other printer (at least ~2 years ago when I bought it) was "a hobby into itself", most definitely what I did NOT want.
I do not want a hobby, I already have way too many. I wanted something plug and play, zero fuss, and the A1 Mini delivers.
If that reads like an ad to you, I don't know what to say.
This is part of the reason their attempts frustrate me so much. I love my A1 Mini but I do not want to support this kind of behavior so I will probably go to another company if I ever upgrade.
Mind you, Bambulab has region Locks on Chinese-version hardware which are strictly disabled overseas. What's the difference between these version? Nothing. Just oversea versions are more expensive.
Pawel Jarczak could consider donating the code to an anonymous random friend who happened to upload it to a chinese code forge where development could continue.
I would have said Prusa a year or two ago but they've reneged a little on their open-ness. That was probably in response to Bambu being fully closed and gaining so much market share.
The Core line of printers seems promising and a big leap towards closing the gap towards Bambu's corexy printers but haven't used one yet and I've been out of the game a little. Bambu though is probably more of a high-end appliance type than Prusas more utilitarian feel.
I splurged a while ago and got a pre-assembled Core One. It worked great right out of the box and is has been worry-free so far. So far, I've treated it very much like an appliance with no tinkering on my part yet.
The machine is still quite hackable. Prusa publishes the firmware and CAD files for their printers, although the CAD files aren't under a fully open license. The support is generally nice to people who tinker with their printers and sometimes even seems to be genuinely invested in seeing tinkering projects succeed.
I am not going to say they are perfect, but I think they have a good balance of ethics, openness, product quality, innovation, availability and price. By that I mean their are the best in none of them, but I don't think of anything better as a combination.
Prusa sat on its haunches for a decade, happy to leave progress on the table as long as their salaries got paid. Bambu actually got non-technical people into the hobby and has always had more bang per buck.
Buy a bambu; use Orcaslicer
Edit: didn't mean to say "held the industry back"; I would categorize my opinion more along the lines of "were happy to get fat on past offerings" or the like.
I just bought a qidi printer. It arrives in a few days, so I can’t speak to the machine’s quality beyond saying it’s reviewed pretty well - but the software is all open source klipper with no locks preventing you from modifying it. The hardware itself is closed source, but if you want an open hardware machine in 2026 you need to build your own voron.
I have a Prusa MK3S and it has been very very reliable. There's also a ton of mods you can download and print, which modify or extend the printer for specific use cases. They are a bit more expensive then their Chinese counterparts, but in my opinion, it's definitely worth the extra cost for the peace of mind.
Obviously it depends on what you’re doing and what is importante to you. It’s hard to beat Bambi Labs H2D or X2D for versatility, practicality, and price. Engineering filaments are getting a lot cheaper as the market expands so it helps to have a printer than can handle those. Given Bambi Labs is so cheap compared to the alternatives customers would probably be better off putting aside the savings to buy a second printer from a different supplier when one starts to catch up.
As I mentioned in a sibling comment, I bought a qidi q2 because i am gambling that they have caught up in terms of quality. The price is comparable to the bambu p1s, while the specs are closer to the x1c. Reviews seem to put it roughly on par with the p2s, which costs 30% more.
It’s clear nobody’s caught up in terms of ux / user friendliness - but as an experienced printer i don’t need my hand held quite as much - and the openness is worth a lot to me. Being able to define custom klipper macros alone makes it worth it to me to stay away from bambu
Prusa. And my Raise3D E2 has been solid for ~5 years. I can't directly compare it to Bambu, but it was a massive step up from the Creality Ender it replaced. It's a "Just works" machine.
Prusa is the most open of the printer manufacturers. They did have to backtrack a bit because Bambu copied their slicer to use for themselves and undercut them, but they're still as open as you can get in a capitalist economy.
We see again and again how companies, even those affiliated with open source, want to milk the ecosystem dry. In this case Bambu Lab does so via the golden cloud. This is not ethical to try to sabotage the ecosystem, so Bambu Lab indeed needs to go bleep itself here.
I trust BambuLabs about as much as I trust the Chinese Communist Party. That's to say, that they are obviously a cat's paw of the CCP, and bring the reactionary, authoritarian attitude with them, whilst using every underhanded, sneaky trick in the book to put Western manufacturers out of business, and ultimately compromise the West's ability to defend itself.
As a Westerner, I value my freedom, so I will happy pay way over the [Chinese-imposed] odds to build a 3D printer of my own than suck on the teat of the CCP and buy a subsidised 3D printer that attacks our freedoms.
I would encourage other right-thinking people who value freedom, democracy and rule-of-law to do the same: build your own or -- at the very least -- support Western 3D printer vendors like Prusa who share our values and contribute back to the community.
I like Rossman and usually agree with him, but imo hes a very bad speaker. I cant watch his videos. His problem is that, instead of getting to the point, he spends an inordinate amount of time pre-defending against bad faith arguments he assumes he will receive in response to his point. Thats just pointless imo, he should just make his point and if idiots dont get it then who cares, I dont think theres anything we can do for them anyway.
I mean considering how absolutely fucked the 2d printing space has been (HP) It's not surprising that 3d printing will involve identical shenanigans once it becomes even slightly mainstream. And that's what Bambu does, make 3d printing accessible.
A slicer is software that takes a 3d model file and "slices" it for 3d printing. It outputs a series of instructions for a 3d printer to build up a physical object, layer by layer (slice by slice). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slicer_(3D_printing)
Damn this is like a variation of the Streisand Effect [1]
I am not involved in this industry so I never heard of the company or the youtuber before reading this. I am tempted to buy one just to make some things (that I don't need but might be fun to make).
Bambu Labs is completely ignoring their legal duties under the AGPL code they used while trying to make others comply to their licensing terms through abuse of the legal system.
Nobody forced them to use said code, they chose to when it was in their best interest and now they renege on the part in the license (the only thing that gives them a right to use and build on said code) when they deem it not in their interest any longer and think they're big enough to squash individuals protesting.
If you are referring to his video from May 2023, "Why I deleted GrapheneOS", it is about the team lead, Daniel Micay, not about GrapheneOS itself. He, in fact, praises GrapheneOS to no end in the very same video.
When was the last time Rossmann had anything nice to say? He seems utterly miserable. I don’t doubt this is an important issue, but when he inserts himself into a dispute, it only gets more overblown and vitriolic on all sides.
(The ridiculous NYC to Austin thing is pretty representative. Complained incessantly about loony liberal New York, moved to Austin, now he complains about Texas. Sorry! Turns out there is no utopia for pathological contrarians.)
He's just like Steve nowadays - he built his entire brand on being angry, so he has to be angry or his core audience will leave. And if that's what you like then fine, but for me it's just not interesting anymore.
It's the sad thing about field experts who become YouTubers: to keep up the viewership, they undergo self-Flanderization.
I was sad to watch Sabine Hossenfelder devolve from a level-headed critic of how research is done, into a loony crank who selects the contrarian angle on every issue. I'm sure the YouTube analytics inform her which topics perform better.
His rants were more palpable when he blasted the design of PCB visible on screen, or vendor that didn't want to sell replacement parts, when viewer could see the damage at the same time. Now he is just another guy with mic. And while he fights for good cause I find his videos at least 5 times too long considering the actual content.
...or, or(!) maybe things really do suck right now? I don't think this is a controversial view. There's reasons to be upset and demand change regarding intellectual property legislation and computing and related technology's hardware.
Yeah he's often not in a good mood, but at least he points out these things, and I understand it can get you worked up if you're investigating these things and come to these concerning discoveries. I'm happy someone is doing that work, even if it's not fun. And he seemed to have taken up that job, and I think he's doing it well, albeit he is sometimes a bit intense, but I would forgive him that.
I made the tragic mistake of getting a Bambu printer (an X1C, with AMS even...) right before they gave all of us the middle finger. I now have it offline, running out of date firmware, connected to a special WiFi network that is isolated from the Internet.
That upset me, but now I'm pissed. Now I don't even care about their stupid printers. Now I'd like to waste Bambu Lab's time and cause problems for them.
And also, while this X1C should be going strong for years, my eyes are on Prusa should I want another printer any time soon for any reason. Less polished or not, they seem like they're still better for consumers even though they are apparently less open than they used to be. But I'm of course interested in hearing what people recommend, too. (I got an X1C because I knew it would be simple, but I don't particularly mind getting my hands dirty or anything. I did build an Ender 3 kit before that.)
Once you have a reliable printer, the workflow is mostly to slice -> send to printer -> wait and check on it every couple of hours until it's done ime. Imo it no longer super matters how much better the on-screen ui or webcam are.
Mutli-color though is where Bambu has a good leg up.
(Diluted) Vision Miner Nano Polymer Adhesive and a good bed leveling probe has done a lot to make my printer set and forget, no matter which print sheets I use.
Wasn’t the main hassle in calibrarion and Bambu was good in that and is major reason for popularity? So ”once you have a reliable printer” is kinda big thing.
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> Mutli-color though is where Bambu has a good leg up.
I'm excited for INDX but going to wait a year or so.
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Can anyone in the commentariat recommend a great, locally available adhesive in Japan? Vision Miner is import-only and pricey. I’ve been using glue-sticks but am ready to level up as I’m moving away from PLA.
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It may not have been a feature then, but you can run updated firmware and still keep it offline by using Developer Mode.
https://wiki.bambulab.com/en/knowledge-sharing/enable-develo...
I don't trust it anymore. I'm using LAN mode today, I have little incentive to update. If I update to anything, it will certainly be third-party modified firmware.
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I'm also in the same boat of regret, but for other reasons. Their support team is beyond awful. I purchased an H2S AMS combo just shy of two months ago (mostly because I saw it being praised by HNers a while back) and found out recently that the AMS they've sent me is defective. It's been truly a bizarre experience trying to deal with customer support. They told me to disassemble the AMS and swap a couple of modules that they mailed me. I did, provided them evidence that I did, and provided evidence that it didn't fix the problem. Their response was to claim that I didn't actually swap the modules and that because of that my warranty no longer applies, and then they said they'd give me a free roll of filament for my troubles (lol). At that point I began the process of invoking the consumer protections afforded to me. Called my credit card company and opened a dispute, invoked Massachusetts law M.G.L. c. 93A, and I'm about to contact my AG.
It's a shame they're going in such an anti-consumer direction, both with their gaslighting customer support and the lawfare against Orca.
The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act is your friend. Furthermore, the idea that you could be expected to perform technical labor to repair something is ridiculous: grandma is protected, too, and this type of service falls far outside the scope of what is reasonable.
Odd - I bought an H2C about a month ago - and the nozzle-swapping Vortek rack just wouldn't calibrate or operate - blocking even calibrating the left-nozzle from proceeeding.
However - yes, they did have me perform multiple disassembly/re-connect steps and document, and then of course every question/answer was at least a 24-hr turnaround (some delays were because I keep my printer at my office and chose to work from home a few times), eventually they sent me an entire new Vortek rack - which, once installed worked perfectly.
I was not looking forward to packing the entire thing up and shipping it back.
hmmm - they never asked for the old one back... (hmmm, harvest the servo motor? drag-chains and rods for other projects? Mount it on the wall and use it to store extra induction nozzles? Ideas?)
I have seen one YouTube video that seemed to indicate a problem with pulling filament was because of a little flap within the new 4-1 PTFE filament adapter. There is a little rubber valve/flap (apparently it is a consumable, because the printer came with extra) - which he found if left in-place would cause filament jams, so he removed it, and no more feed problems. (Unfortunately, I cannot find the exact video - I have seen/bookmarked too many)
Just wanna say, I appreciate you going through the effort. Please share your story as it progresses!
I had the same experience with their shitty customer service but for something much smaller. I had red filament from bambu that was constantly getting clogged and they had me go through so many hoops. they had me measure the filament thickness in 10 places WITH CALIPERS and also FILM IT. all this shit was a waste of my time. After they asked for even more steps, I just gave up. I felt it wasn’t worth it for a $16 exchange.
But it left a really bad taste in my mouth about the company.
Consumers are used to stuff like Amazon customer service. I wasn’t expecting to waste all that time to exchange 1kg of filament. I thought they’d send it out no hassle and take back the defective filament to research it themselves.
So now when I recommend Bambu, I say the printers are great but their customer service is horrible. So be very careful.
I have a friend in the exact same situation
I assume you have an ams 2 pro?
And it won’t pull filament when randomly ?
Her also same issue and she’s having to fight them.
Shit is wild.
I feel rather guilty I had an initially good experience with my p2s, but they’ve managed to mess up the firmware or something ….
Now I don’t think I would recommend it to anyone anymore.
So "right to repair" is "duty to repair" now? /s
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I was almost just like you I got some recommendations from HN, all of them were for Bambu.
I was lucky and they didn’t have any in stock when I wanted to buy…
Now I’m nervous about buying one from anyone.
> I was almost just like you I got some recommendations from HN, all of them were for Bambu.
Bambu has spent a ton of dough on paid advertising via YouTube shills (it is absolutely rampant in that scene - I like the channel Maker's Muse as a notable exception, who also has some funny videos up where he reads emails from various vendors trying to bribe or intimidate him in various ways), and many in the HN crows were happy to parrot their talking points to justify their purchases. A winning marketing strategy.
To this day you end up encountering a lot of people who are under the impression Bambu printers somehow made 3D printing accessible or are the only ticket to a problem-free experience. And you know, the product might do that, the problem is the message that they're the only game in town, which has never been true and which they largely achieved on the back of work already done by others for them in software, designs and ecosystem development.
To contrast this: You often hear this about Apple, that they didn't necessarily invent the stuff, but they did the last-mile integration really well. It's incomparable. Apple did far more work on their products than Bambu ever did.
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There’s no reason to be nervous.
You can use their slicer (which works well!). If you don’t want to, you can use one that sends through their Bambu Connect software, which Orca Slicer doesn’t want to support for…reasons. Or you can use it in LAN mode. Or you can just transfer the gcode via an SD card or flash drive like ye olde days.
Despite the tone of the other reply to your question, they are absolutely the easiest printers to work with. I don’t love their new multicolor solution for how slow it is compared to other options, but that would be the only real fault with their newest line.
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After my initial Ender 3v2 (which was my entry point to 3D printing, but a terrible printer otherwise), we bought a Prusa even thought it was much more expensive than Bambu because we wanted to support a European company and because as a European company they are under the GDPR.
It has been absolutely great and low-effort. I haven't needed it yet, but their printers seem to be focused on easy maintenance by their owners.
Same, but the first printer was an Anet A8. Moving to a Prussa Mini was a breath of fresh air, going from 35% to 95% print success.
Meh. I use bambu and I am a maker but it's not a big thing in my opinion.
I bought a bambu precisely because I don't want to mod the thing with a gazillion custom upgrades like I needed to do with my previous printers to make them work reliably. I just want to press print and... print. Bambu totally delivers there. They really commoditised 3D printing and brought the price down. And if you do want to go off the beaten track they have options.
My hobby is not 3D printer tinkering. It's printing stuff to use. This is clearly what bambu market towards and they do the job really well. I know many people in the makerspace community that spend weeks tuning their perfect Klipper setup. Cool but I prefer spending those weeks perfecting my designs instead. It's hard to overstate the difference they made in out of the box capability especially for the price. And their spare parts are decently priced too.
Now if they start locking down the consumables like other evil companies like 3D Systems and Da Vinci XYZ did then yes. Then they deserve all the blame they can get.
The orcaslicer thing I don't know what to think about yet (I have to read up on it) but the discussion here was more about the local mode.
Ps Bambu isn't the only brand I have. But I do like what they've done. It was exactly what I needed.
My daughter is an architecture student and needed a 3d printer to help with making models for her studio class. She had no desire to learn the ends and outs of 3d printers. She wanted something easy to use and reliable. The Bambu Labs printer I bought her has been just that.
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Prusa does this perfectly fine. They're just more expensive.
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> Bambu totally delivers there. They really commoditised 3D printing and brought the price down.
Prusa's MK3S delivered consistently good, zero fuss, straight out of the box prints with auto bed leveling for $999 before Bambu labs even existed at all.
Bambu brought Core XY & multi-filament to the "mainstream" (for however mainstream 3D printing is at all), absolutely, but if you just wanted a 3D printer that consistently worked for an affordable price? Prusa beat them to that by years. They just didn't advertise the shit out of it on YouTube like Bambu did.
Prusa unfortunately then kinda just... relaxed? Not sure what happened, but MK3 -> MK4 was pretty meh, the XL was delayed, the Core One a good response but still lacking on the multi-material front, etc...
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Dude, the only reason you can be a maker is because of the many hours of work provided by the open source community. The very same one your support is trampling on since it's in favor of a company profiteering from them. All because you don't want to be inconvenienced.. Educate yourself on the issue and start having some respect.
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Speaking about Prusa, my experience has been that they’re very condescending to users.
Extremely basic features (like serial printing) are considered “nice to have”. Some tickets have remained open for over 6 years now and ignored by prusa:
- https://github.com/prusa3d/Prusa-Firmware-Buddy/issues/189 (still open after 6+ years)
- https://github.com/prusa3d/Prusa-Firmware-Buddy/issues/283 (took 3.5 years to acknowledge and fix)
It is well-known that Prusa is rather slow and hesitant to implement new features in their firmware because they really want new features also to work on their very old printers if possible. And Prusa really wants to avoid introducing regressions with new firmware versions (even though they are not perfect regarding this).
Thus, because of this basically promise by Prusa, the pace with which new features become available is much slower.
Prusa is for people who really want their 3D printers supported for a very long time.
Same experience. Wanted to get an X1C after I had saved enough, then I was lucky enough to be able to send it back within the 2 weeks time frame. I live in the EU so I was able to demand the refund.
Now I am rebuilding my old Ender 3 with Openbuilds parts into a CoreXY setup, all metal hotend, sturdier metal frame, and the newer RAMPS board with a raspberry pi and klipper setup. Don't know enough about the multi tool related things, but maybe I am gonna focus on that afterwards.
I am having tons of fun while doing so, it has been quite a while since I rebuilt my Anet A8 into an AM8 with a custom Marlin firmware back then.
> my eyes are on Prusa should I want another printer any time soon for any reason.
Have Prusa finally fixed their engineering? Prusa basically sitting inert on the engineering front is what allowed Bambu to leapfrog them.
Bambu made real engineering improvements: linear slides, servomotor for feed, accelerometer tuning, etc. Has Prusa finally decided to compete again? A lot of us are willing to give a company more money for being open source, but the basic product can't be too significantly inferior.
It looks like there is at least one linear slide on the Prusa Core One+ so that's a start...
Bambu won with relentless free giveaways to every YouTuber on the planet, cheap prices, and a consumer friendly looking design.
I don’t think they earned it.
I suspect there is a huge number of people out there who bought them who don’t even know what else exists. They saw a YouTuber advertise one on a video making something and decided to buy that.
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> Have Prusa finally fixed their engineering? Prusa basically sitting inert on the engineering front is what allowed Bambu to leapfrog them.
This was the time when Prusa produced the MK3... printers. The MK4S was already a huge step forward: in my opinion - privacy topics aside - already better than Bambu's offerings for some applications (even though these applications were possibly not the ones that the masses care(d) about).
The Core One+ and the Core One L that were released after that are really good printers. Also the Prusa XL is a great printer for what it has been designed for if you give it some maintenance love (note however that the Prusa XL was from a time when less people wanted to print filaments that strongly profit from a heated chamber, so the Prusa XL was - in opposite to the Core One and Core One L - not designed with a focus on this).
But.. the good news is that any future potential buyers ( like me ) know to avoid that particular vendor. The issue, as it appears to be common lately, is that the number of buyers gets smaller and smaller as regulatory frameworks get more and more onerous. Otoh, I am more than happy to lend a helping hand. This is probably as good of a fight as it gets.
I was lucky enough to have seen the initial controversy and install the X1Plus firmware on my X1C about 2-weeks before lockdown. It has worked flawlessly with OrcaSlicer ever since. For monitoring when I am away from my office, I setup VPN, HomeAssistant and could do it from my computer - but there was also a "Bambu Companion" app released pretty quickly in that timeframe (there are probably others now) which allowed my to replace the "Bambu Handy" functionality on my phone.
So - of course, I swore I would not buy another Bambu. But, when looking at the various pricing and other aspects of competitors - about a month ago I did end-up buying an H2C with double-AMS and an HT - mainly to reduce filament waste, have a larger build volume, be able to use multi-materials for support "quickly" and have active chamber heating for more "engineering" type filaments. Don't believe the hype about the chamber filter though - I have found with ABS, you still need external exhaust or air filtering as even though the chamber "closes" and recycles via the filter, you still have the "poop chute" venting fumes...
... and of course... even if I wanted to switch to LAN-mode, unfortunately OrcaSlicer does not yet support the H2C... perhaps it never will unfortunately...
If you’re eyeing Prusa, that’ll probably be ideal. ...but it does look like Sovol is teasing an INDX alternative (I have a Sovol SV08, it’s a “good value” tinkerer printer based on the Voron)
And if you really want “open”, there’s isn’t much better than a Voron in that aspect.
Bambu showed their true colours last year when they would've eliminated offline access altogether if not for public outrage. You don't own your Bambu printer, you're leasing it at a subsidised premium.
This move does not surprise me at all, and I'm genuinely happy that Louis is willing to shell out money to help those that can't defend themselves.
I'm happy that Bambu finally made Prusa care, but I will not cheer them even if they consistently innovate. It's just sad.
I bought a Prusa several years ago that I had a rollercoaster of feels on. It's reliable, works great, but also cost me $900. For the next 3 years or so I was wondering whether I should have just bought a $250 Bambu and gotten almost same results. Now I'm happy I didn't.
Both friends with Bambu printers bought them because they were cheaper than Prusa, and they wanted "a tool, not a hobby" (which I think is marketing invented to disparage an open source, repairable printer).
Three years later, they have unreliable printers that are difficult to maintain.
I have a five year old Prusa, still working very nicely, and it's still a tool and not itself a hobby.
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And the yet again I got told over and over again that Bambu didn't really mean to, and if they did they learned their lesson, and after all you can still keep them offline. And spending more for a prusa obviously is silly.
I'm really getting too old dealing with morons who didn't learn anything after the same patterns repeating for decades now.
companies don’t learn lessons. they will always push the boundaries of what they can get away with as long as it improves their bottom line
What pattern?
I'm honestly not getting the complaint here. Bamboo Lab forced competitors to step up and actually produce good products. Now that there are many Bamboo Labs competitors you are no longer dependent on Bamboo Labs anymore.
I'd love for this pattern to repeat for eternity.
If anything this is the good ending to the story. The rise and fall of a giant.
Louis is one of the most passionate YouTubers you can watch. I don't think he gets it right 100% of the time, but when you are that vulnerable (and what appears to be authentic) you're bound to not make the the right call every once in awhile (as we all do).
I support him even though people can pick him apart.
As a matter of fact he's a never-ending source of drama and outrage, all of which are his own opinions. His repair channel isn't even about repair anymore, it's all drama, all the time. I can hardly believe people fall for his shtick anymore.
90% of his content is about advocating for consumer rights like ownership and repair, most of which is documented and sourced on his wiki [1]. If the only thing you see here is "drama and outrage" then you're not the target audience and you should return to mindless consumption until such a time that you find yourself affected.
[1] https://consumerrights.wiki/w/Main_Page
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I have trouble understanding how the opinions of the historical right to repair guy are surprising or even considered drama, it’s not drama because it’s not interpersonal gossip, it’s right to repair activism.
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With Louis, it's been a journey of "how I learn to stop worrying and enjoy the angry repain guy"
He gets a bunch of things wrong since it's mostly reactionary content but he is willing to correct himself when he gets things wrong.
He does a lot to prevent companies from screwing over customers and that in of itself is good enough that in willing to overlook his flaws
Right up there with the Not Just Bikes guy on YouTube who used to talk about how transit-oriented cities are great or would show some positive stuff from somewhere. Now it's just endless videos about how cars suck, cities suck, even a lot of transit sucks. The constant negativity is such a put-off.
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Yeah I agree, it’s almost a political drama channel at this point and his opinions lack nuance.
I don’t understand why an article from Tom’s Hardware about an opinion of Louis Rossman who tells a 3D printer maker to go fuck themselves is currently the most upvoted article on HN.
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I am completely against the outrage and drama cycle of all media. But as a matter of fact, this is clearly what drives views in today’s world so it’s nice when someone consistently getting millions of views at least chooses to support something good once in a while.
I much prefer channels that don’t use this way of gaining views, but they, because of that, don’t gain nearly as many views.
I have no skin in this game, but it’s pretty clear what the majority of viewers want.
His passion does manifest as drama 90% of the time, but it’s somewhat necessary to build momentum and attention to the causes that he promotes. Also, he has to toe the line of opinion to avoid being slapped with spurious legal challenges.
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I often find him a bit much myself, but don't doubt his passion, and even if I did, I would only express that opinion publicly accompanied by supporting evidence, because using phrases like "people fall for his shtick" is essentially implying deliberate fraud, and that doesn't seem to be something you should throw around lightly.
I don't think an opinion becomes more based in reality by sticking the words "As a matter of fact" in front of them.
I don't see it as a problem.
Although I have to say, I think Louis was making better videos when he was in New York. I understand the financial situation where New York really abuses people, but I am just looking at the videos. I can't say whether that decision was what changed, but I noticed that the content changed a lot once he relocated outside of New York.
However had, I disagree with the "drama" comment. I would call it more that the movement became more important, which is fine, in my opinion. Right to repair isn't that different from many other movements where we people try to get more rights back again. See the right to videotape public officials in performing their public jobs and so on. It is all connected.
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Imagine an attorney who represents clients for free, but does that semi-publicly on YouTube. This would also be a never-ending drama, wouldn't it?
What you described is an observational bias. His job is to bring this kind of anti-consumer shit to light. Hence, the drama.
The drama is about right to repair and he isnt really the source, he is the conduit.
What makes you believe it is a shtick?
When there is drama as far as I can tell he always had pretty solid reasons to be dramatic. It isn't drama when you have real reasons. Drama implies making shit up. Point to the shit he made up. Go ahead. Be specific.
Your accusation there makes it sound like he makes up some minor personal issues and blows them up as rage bait. As if the lock in and enshittification he advocates against are just his personal opinion. They are not. The vast majority (last time I checked >80%) of the public shares the opinion that you should own the equipment you buy and that it should be repairable.
If you happen to be a person that tries to establish neo-feudalism at the cost of everybody else, a public figure successfully making that an issue, might be problematic for your goals, sure. But then your goals may just be beneath contempt anyways and you should working on becoming a productive member of society instead.
If you think it is a shtick because you haven't really looked into it that much and you have a contrarian reflex, maybe try to bring the receipts next time. You know, like:" Louis Rossmann is a drama queen because remember when he said X about Y? Remember when he said Y about Z? It turned out to be Q and Louis had to know it was Q" etc.
Rossmann turned his YouTube fame into political advocacy for a popular topic, that he politically represents. Don't like that topic? Don't watch his content. People change and so does the focus of their life.
I run an university electronics workshop and the issues he mentioned are the issues I have to deal with every week, be it some shitty vendor lock-in on some gear or equipment where just the part that dies first is proprietary and service-hostile.
So did the situation change to the better?
If not, why should he stop?
What a shallow take. Activism isn't "drama". Maybe the problem is just that cynicism has rotted your frame of reference.
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Thank you. My Bambu printer works excellently. The previous one I bought years ago is still going strong with a friend now. When parts wear out, I can easily get official, known quality replacements.
I have never had a problem with the software, the outrage is totally manufactured to have something to complain about. Louis was fun to listen to for a while, but his schtick is so tired now.
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Who IS he, could you give a summary?
I don’t recognize the name and for some reason the article never gives a single sentence of context just expecting you to know the same way things expect you to know who Trump or Taylor Swift is.
I even watch a few 3D printer and maker YTers, but I guess not him.
He isn't specifically related to the 3D printing or maker space (in this sense) niches. He got popular at first for repairing Apple devices that Apple Stores claimed were unrepairable or quoted enormous repair fees for. He made videos about those cases, and then transitioned into right-to-repair efforts in general. He also started the Consumer Rights wiki: https://consumerrights.wiki/w/Main_Page
His channel isn't really about 3D printing or maker projects, which is maybe why you have not heard of him.
He has (or had, not sure) an electronics repair shop where he showed laptop and phone repairs on his channel. Recently he is one of the people who push right to repair regulations and consumer rights. Which is probably why he is interested in this case.
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Louis Rossman is right for repair activist and consumer rights advocate. He's an owner of a repair shop, that's mostly focused on fixing macbooks. On Youtube he started by posting repair tutorials, but then his content shifted from repair videos to macbook rants to him lobbying for right to repair law across many US states to covering general anti-consumer practices and offering money and support to people who fight against it.
I mean, that's sort of all it is, some dude ranting on his YouTube channel. Often "reacting" to some other dudes rant. Closely related to the format of a bunch of bros "podcasting".
> I don't think he gets it right 100% of the time, but when you are that vulnerable (and what appears to be authentic)
Saying anything less than glowingly positive about Rossmann is dangerous due to his fan base, but I think this mentality of pre-forgiving his misinformation is not healthy.
Being passionate and putting on a vulnerable schtick shouldn’t excuse someone from misleading their large audience.
Rossman is a drama YouTuber, like many others. This is an entire YouTube genre. Most of them have the same schtick where they appear to be the most passionate, vulnerable, on-your-side narrator of a story. His schtick is common in the drama YouTuber genre.
You shouldn’t develop such a parasocial relationship with a person that you reflexively defend every topic they engage in. Discuss the topics each on their own factual merits and be prepared to look for second sources. Don’t align yourself with someone because they are passionate and appear “vulnerable”. At the end of the day, you need to remember that putting on this display is how he makes his money. It’s a show.
> Rossman is a drama YouTuber, like many others.
I dont see how he is “like many others”. A lot of YouTubers cover controversy for controversy sake, or just as material for another sponsored video. He does not do sponsored content, and usually seems to push for something concrete around consumer rights. So I think the comparison to other drama Youtubers is unfair.
In my view, the drama is more a way to draw attention to his activism. He does tend to put his money and time where his mouth is.
But perhaps my view is biased, since I only see the videos the YouTube algorithm suggests to me, and those may be the ones that are more focused on consumer rights than drama. Still, that has consistently been my impression.
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This is an uncharitable take. Rossman has actual repair expertise, founded the consumer rights wiki to help organize activists that want to forward right to repair, and attends public meetings to discuss these topics with local governments. His YouTube channel raises awareness, but there's a lot of substance behind the style.
https://consumerrights.wiki/w/Main_Page
It would help if he wouldn't throw fits like a high schooler in a lot of his videos. For his brand and for the causes he champions. Its almost only drama on his channel now.
OrcaSlicer supports Bambu printers already. Does anyone have any better sources for what this other fork supposedly did?
EDIT: I’m not going to sit through another angry Louis Rossmann video, but from what I can see someone tried to make a branch of OrcaSlicer that interacted directly with Bambu’s private cloud APIs to impersonate Bambu Studio. I don’t agree with the legal threats but this case is about connecting to their non-public cloud APIs, not connecting to the printer directly.
Bambu's proprietary networking plugin uses the agpl libraries from slic3r/prusaslicer, by not releasing the source code they're violating the AGPL.
Where is the proof for that? I am interested in learning more about the network plugin! I was under the impression it did not use any AGPL code at all, and that it basically just talked HTTP.
Some time ago the printers were able to communicate over both cloud and local protocols. Then, in a firmware update, they created distinct modes for those. You can still use the printers with OrcaSlicer, but in a mode that prevents being controlled by cloud too.
Note that at least for now you can also downgrade the firmware and use the "legacy" plugin with OrcaSlicer to fully restore functionality.
This is a feature. When I enable LAN mode I do not want Bambu to be able to control my printer.
It remains astonishing to me that this is controversial. Not everyone has the knowhow to block internet access to their printer, so having a toggle in firmware is terrific. I've verified after turning it on that it never phones home. Couldn't be happier.
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> I’m not going to sit through another angry Louis Rossmann video
Try https://youtu.be/0tdZ5Z7nRDY?si=vjnJ90p6ba_Xik9B for a less emotive take on this specific case, and the closely related matter of Bambu's attempt to circumvent some of AGPL's protections.
Since you’re familiar with the topic, any sources that are not YouTube videos?
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> OrcaSlicer supports Bambu printers already
No, it doesn't. It used to, but then Bambu Labs "for security reasons" (as always) removed access to their "network plugin".
There is a lot of confusion around this, so: you lose access to bambu cloud, so quick upload, remote printing, remote monitoring of prints, synchronization of filament data, and lots of other useful features.
You get a half-baked "throw it over the wall" way of sending files to your printer using a standalone Bambu executable (largely neglected). Note that this does not provide a way to synchronize the filament list to your slicer before slicing, which is useful and important.
You also get a "developer/LAN mode", which is an either/or proposition. If you turn it on, you lose cloud features. No more remote monitoring of your prints using your phone.
I find it very annoying that Bambu managed to implant this shallow take of "you can use LAN mode so things are fine" in people's minds.
I just use the bambu plugin to home assistant and I have 90% of the relevant cloud functionality.
Is it perfect or the ideal solution? Not quite, but it does let me have a fully local bambu printer with any theoretical calling home blocked at a network level.
Although local LAN control is still unhindered, browsing the filesystem on the printer from the slicer is locked behind cloud mode.
Getting cloud mode means using Bambu Studio. Getting Bambu Studio means one more notch in slowly getting locked into the walled Bambu garden.
doesn't the bambu have a built in FTP server?
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OrcaSlicer is the fork, he just avoid touching BambuLab ecosystem.
The other thing he released is a klipper firmware for the AMS, BambuLab of course are not happy.
Very useful comment. I’ve had an A1 Mini for a year now and it has been my favourite purchase in years. Like when I got my first mobile phone, I feel like I’ll have some sort of 3d printer for the rest of my life. Bambu made it super easy and inexpensive for this to happen.
I’m completely against bullying and attempts to lock out open source software from using 3d printers directly; if they locked out OrcaSlicer from direct control I’d have a big problem with that.
But trying to interact directly with Bambu’s private infrastructure/APis seems reasonable for Bambu to block. I think a cease and desist might backfire on Bambu but i don’t think it’s unreadable. (Didn’t watch the video. Just getting context from parent comment. )
It's not like you have a choice, the printer doesn't work locally unless you enable LAN mode, and then it only works locally. Bambu make you pick either "closed servers" or "the mobile app doesn't work" for no reason.
I'll chip in to this developer's legal defense fund because I want to be able to do whatever I want with my printer, and "I can't do what I want with my printer" is a bigger problem for me right now than "the developer made a TCP connection on my behalf to a server he didn't own".
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> But trying to interact directly with Bambu’s private infrastructure/APis seems reasonable for Bambu to block.
Even if they have taken away other routes that used to exist so that this is the only way?
I've also been very happy with my A1 (bought ~18 months go), and have since bought a U1 (which has networking problems of its own, but is otherwise a great upgrade) alongside it. Unless Bambu changes its tack significantly I'll not be buying another of their machines or more of their materials¹.
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[1] well, maybe the light grey PLA as I've not yet found anything similar enough easily available in the UK, and it is perfect for prints that I want to look neutral or for some scifi ships & similar…
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Bambu also tried to patent several widely used techniques in china, fyi.
https://www.mdpi.com/2411-5134/8/6/141
Josef Prusa also commented on this last year: https://www.josefprusa.com/articles/open-hardware-in-3d-prin...
The motive appears to be to get tax credits as opposed to becoming a full-on patent troll, though with how quickly China is speedrunning their version of capitalism I would not be surprised if it turns into patent trolling.
Their behaviour overall is really giving me mixed feelings, because the Bambu A1 I have is an absolutely amazing machine for the price, and I've been casually in this since the Printrbot days.
Most countries are first to file, not first to invent or first to disclose. First to file rewards this type of behavior.
That's a common but highly misleading view.
If you invent something and publish it (including by offering it to the public in product) your work constitutes prior art and is an absolute bar against the subsequent (valid) patenting of the invention by a third party. F2F vs F2I has no impact on this.
What F2F means if that if two people working in secret create the same invention and show up at the patent office at the same time-- the first one to file gets it. The earlier F2I scheme instead had a contest where the party that is the most ambitious in fabricating lab notebooks to backdate their invention gets the patent.
Because of a poor choice in naming many people wrongfully assume F2F means you can go pick up other people's inventions out of the public sphere and claim them as your own because you filed first.
The misunderstanding is exacerbated because fraudulently patenting other people's inventions is commonplace-- as there is no consequence for doing so except losing the patent after getting defeated on review/litigation-- but the practice isn't meaningfully influenced by F2F vs F2I.
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Definitely gives me second thoughts about getting one. They look like easiest way to get into 3d printing as a tool (rather than another hobby), but their recent attitude just makes me think I should suffer a bit less advanced product just to not have to deal with that shit.
There's some drama, and they did some wrong calls. But the hardware is still really fantastic (as a X1C owner). If you want to have some things printed and don't necessarily want fine tuning your printer as a hobby, I highly recommend it.
Same. I don't care about the online connectivity or whatever, I just print a few personal things every month so the convenience and reliability far outweigh any cons for me.
RE: 3D printer as a tool, I recommend Teaching Tech's video (1) as a guide to choosing the right 3D printer. His first question is "Will you use your 3D printer as a tool or a hobby?", followed by the priorities that flow from that choice, e.g. pretty looking prints, or accurate parts that fit together.
1: https://youtu.be/JCHUOQ7yby0
It is definitely a philosophy you have to buy into, in the same way that people accept the iPhone's walled garden. (I have several Bambu Lab printers and have been an iPhone user for 17 years)
Honestly I don't regret going with Bambu. Yes they suck in a way I get it. However the time and money I spent into my ender to keep it barely alive is all wasted compared to these machines that just run perfectly out of the package.
Sure prusa is fine too, and other brands might are getting there too. But if you want to print as a tool I would recommend to just use the tool nearly everyone is agreeing on.
I didn't regret it once, and have 3 printers at this point (2 of which free thanks to Bambu points)
Also I am still amazed that my $150 A1 mini is basically just as good as the X2D or P2S.
You can use Bambu printers fully offline. All this vitriol about them is severely misplaced IMO.
That comes with a big caveat. You can either choose to use the printer offline, or online, with no ability to use both. If you want the ability to monitor or pause a print when you're not home on the off chance something goes wrong, you HAVE to send every print through their cloud, there's no middle ground.
That's not Bambu being open, that's them doing the absolute minimum to allow people to say "you can use Bambu printers fully offline" in comment sections.
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Where can I get the source code they modified?
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“Our cloud services are inundated” … says company that killed product from working offline and forced it to be connected
You can put your printers in LAN Mode to not use their cloud. You just have to choose one or the other, and the software in question enabled features they didn't want unless you ran off their cloud.
I don't have a Bambu; previously, I had Prusa printers from the MK3 generation and I struggled to get good prints (poor bed adhesion and the extruder breaking frequently, requiring very intensive repairs); since not having a working printer slows my hobbies down, I ended up with two. Both broke down and I got tired of fixing them, but when I looked at the prices of new Prusa, they were high enough to make me pause.
Instead of a Bambu, I got a Flashforge Adventurer 5M. It is incredibly cheap (cheap enough that I am more than happy to replace it after two years if it stops working), and is pretty reliable (compared to the Prusa MK3 and MK3S I had), and most of all, the self-calibration works well enough that I don't spend any time debugging prints that fail at the first layer anymore; I just re-run calibration and it's fine, and if it's not fine, I clean the plate and it works.
It also comes with a terrible slicer (dervied from Slic3r I believe) with annoying "log into the cloud every time you start the app", but I moved to OrcaSlicer. I had to give up a few nice features but it hasn't truly impacted my workflow. And it does receive firmware updates (it's connected via wifi to my home network). My hope- just a hope- is that they don't do anything truly stupid with future firmware updates or end up getting in a hissy fit with prominent youtubers.
Can someone explain to me like I'm 5, why you would need to communicate with a cloud service to use a 3D printer?
To steelman their use case, Bambu has marketed themselves as the most approachable way to get into 3D printing. In addition to their low prices, that includes ease of setup, and ease of going from a model on their website to a physical object in your hand. If you're already getting the model from their website (and realistically, the overwhelming majority of 3d prints are downloaded), then having their online software ecosystem handle everything for you just reinforces that approachability.
But realistically, because if they control how you use your machine, they can start skimming profit off of those digital services every time you print something. That's only works if they have control over how you use the machine in your house.
To outward appearances, they seem to be trying to recreate the printer ink/razor blade business model on 3d printers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Razor-and-blades_model#Printer...
The RFID reading of their Bambu brand filament spools sure is convenient... for now. Give it a few more years and you might not be able to print non-bambu filament. The hardware side is fully equipped for this bullshit, just takes one more braindamaged MBA to have a Great Idea
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Remote device control allows for running and monitoring prints from another networks with zero effort, but more importantly local device control can't be monetized. It's just about the money.
Almost every hardware manufacturer on Earth is convinced that the only way for an application to communicate with a device on my LAN is to round-trip through some centralized (always manufacturer-run) server.
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Remote device control allows for running and monitoring prints from another networks with zero effort
To reiterate the GP's question: why would I want to do that? In practice whenever I want to monitor anything from anywhere, I just VNC or RDP to my PC.
If it's just about ease-of-use, as the other replies suggest, and not actually gating the functionality of the hardware, I'm having trouble understanding the outrage. It sounds as if they are trying to be the Apple of 3D printing, while also still supporting "sideloading." If the hardware itself isn't locked down, why does anyone care what they do with their cloud service?
OTOH, if the hardware is locked down, then that's what people should be complaining about, not an optional cloud service.
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So obviously it's not necessary at all, but Bambu built their entire brand on ease of use - the app allows you to pick from thousands and thousands of premade models and send them to your printer directly from the app. Judging by the Facebook Bambu groups, most people never bother with installing PC Bambu Studio. And because phones don't necessarily have the raw power to slice the model on device, it's sent to their servers for slicing to fit your printer and filament type.
So it's a nice to have thing, but it could have very easily been optional. Instead they made it so that every print, even ones sent from Bambu Studio, has to go through their servers(unless you enable Lan mode)
I work with the Smoothieware project. The V1 Smoothieboard was one of the first (the first I am aware of) with an ethernet connection.
It was always stated by our devs that it should never be connected to anything but a local network. Why? Because you are supposed to be there running the printer...it is a fire hazard otherwise. People do run unattended, myself included, but it should not be advised or hyped as a "good idea".
The possibility of a hack was always there too. What could a malicious actor do with access to your machine?
The advice was not only ignored...but used as an advertising point to show how innovative they are.
Amazing how fast everyone forgot the time Bambu forced a firmware update which caused a large number of printers to begin printing uncommanded which in some cases caused damage due to completed prints still sitting on the bed. [1]
V2 Smoothieware has the ability to auto update firmware via network...but it is a command that requires the user to send.
At any rate...this matters to me little anymore. My printer is a decade old and going strong still. I have no desire to "purchase" any printer. I would just build another if needed.
The biggest lie sold by the marketers is that working on your printer is "lost time". Personally...I am glad I had the 2011 RepRap struggles. I would never give up my opensource hardware for a "cheaper" machine.
[1] I searched for old webpages on this...can't seem to find them anymore using google. It was a very well known issue in the 3d printing community at the time though.
This isn't defending Bambu, and it's not an ELI5 because, whether you meant it sarcastically or not, the easy answer to your question is "you do not need to connect to a cloud service to use a 3D printer".
Bambu Labs however, has chosen to market their printers with an app that provides a "one-stop shop" for all things 3D-printer. You can browse their version of Thingiverse (or Printables or Cults 3D) and send jobs directly to your printer. You can also access your printer remotely (read outside your home network without tunnelling/port-forwarding/VPNs) to monitor prints, get notified when a print is done, get notified you've run out of filament, watch the printer work if it's equipped with a camera, etc. etc.
Bambu has been attempting to remove features that enable easy local (not-internet-connected) use cases and force everyone to use the cloud, etc. Or at least make it as painful as possible to skip the cloud.
Relevant context: X1C owner who did not update the firmware that forced bambu's "secure printing" workflow on users that previously used their local network "plugin".
I stopped using Handy, blocked the printer's access to the internet, and ultimately, did not miss a thing. The printer continued to work fine with my slicer of choice (softfever's fork of Bambu Lab studio's fork of Prusa Slicer's fork of slic3r, now known as OrcaSlicer).
Like most things these days, they make a decent printer, but are part of tech's steadfast march to control everything. The twist is that they're in a space defined very much by breaking control.
> Can someone explain to me like I'm 5, why you would need to communicate with a cloud service to use a 3D printer?
Using a cloud service means all your designs are submitted to Bambu and that means that they have the ability resell this intelligence information to the CCP and friendly entities, subsidizing the cost of their products and allowing Bambu to achieve unprecedented price/performance.
You don't really, but the entire ecosystem is quite ergonomic for people who don't want to fiddle with software, connections, config, permissions, etc. and Just Print something.
Not defending Bambu. The UX is quite straightforward and easy, however.
Should we start with an explanation of why you would need to communicate with an IP network to use a 3D printer? Is it impossible to just plug in a USB connection and print?
Sure. I think I can explain the advantage of that.
With an Internet connection to their clown, a Bambu Labs printer doesn't require a person to deal with computers in the traditional sense. Like, at all.
The printer can be over there on the table, and a person can use it while sitting on their sofa with the cell phone that's in their hand. There's nothing else required for this to happen. They can browse models, customize them some, and print them all from their phone.
In this way, a person doesn't even need to know how to use a PC in order to casually print some widgets at home.
They don't need to know how networks or VPNs or open Internet-facing ports work, either. They can monitor then print job from anywhere without doing that stuff at all.
They don't need to plug a USB cable in. They don't need to know what an SD card even is.
Head outside, away from wifi? No worries: The printer still works the same whether the user's pocket supercomputer is inside, outside, at the grocery store, or anywhere else.
And for a lot of folks, that's pretty nice. My nephew, for instance, consistently prints amazingly-clean parts with his Bambu Labs machine and he puts zero effort into doing so. For him, at least, It Just Works.
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I can see why some folks in this particular audience may have some trouble appreciating the utility of this kind of apparent simplicity. After all, if there's anything that typifies someone on HN, it is that we're all avid computer users.
But we're weird in this way. Most people are not like this at all.
And to be clear: I myself have zero interest in cloud-oriented 3D printing. But I'm of the weirdest subset: I build my own 3D printers because I enjoy the process of solving the problems that are involved in doing so. If I want to control a printer from my phone from 3 states away, then I'll get that done on my own.
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On my Bambu printer I keep it offline and use the SD card to transfer files to it like some kind of caveman.
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I’m so torn about bambulabs. Prusa needs to redesign their core one so it doesn’t use 3D printed parts (I get how that’s part of their philosophy but it’s not working anymore), $400 cheaper, and have a reliable AMS system. There’s just no other brand that can compete with Bambulab right now in terms of price vs performance.
INDX replaces their existing MMU solution, it will fix that.
I’m not sure why 3D printed parts matter. Thats not why Bambu is cheaper.
The visual design you can argue. Despite being on the Prusa side I do like the more consumer-y visual aesthetic of Bambu machines better.
This was shared here last year and was excellent. Relevant to this discussion: https://www.josefprusa.com/articles/open-hardware-in-3d-prin...
> its cloud servers were inundated with roughly 30 million “unauthorized” requests per day.
So make it possible to connect directly to printer over LAN? Prusa supports that, you can use the printer without ever connecting it to internet.
You can. It’s a single checkbox on the printer UI that toggles between cloud control or local LAN control.
A classic ploy by Chinese commercial companies: offer a 'free-to-play' model with extremely high lock-in costs, all while claiming they’re just lowering the barrier to entry for your own good.
Does anyone know if there is another printer manufacturer that has an equivalent to the Bambu A1S with it's custom AMS system. I don't think people realize how good that printer and AMS system is (the AMS system for the X1C pales in comparison), and I'd love to support another company, but haven't really seen another bed slinger with the simple center-rotating AMS style system seen on the A1S AMS. For context I run a business where I sell 3d printed parts for old film cameras - and the A1S is a workhorse.
The upcoming Prusa support for INDX (by Bondtech) is going to be interesting, especially for business use cases where waste is a primary concern.
https://www.prusa3d.com/product/indx-conversion-kit-8-toolhe...
The main thing keeping me from making the multi-material jump is the waste. I have a couple Vorons and would love to be able to print with different materials at the same time, but the waste with the current solutions is so egregious.
The multimaterial is going to be really interesting, combining TPU + PLA for example. Or TPU + PETG, who knows!
In addition to standard multi-color needs!
I don't know what the A1S is (did you mean the A1 or the P1S?) but the Snapmaker U1 is on my wishlist. More expensive than either but eliminates the AMS waste by using multiple toolheads. Open firmware, most of Bambu's convenience features.
Sorry I meant the A1-Mini - but the regular A1 uses the same, superior AMS system as the mini from what I can tell.
i switched from bambu a1 combo to snapmaker u1 and i am very happy. I installed paxx12 custom firmware, and now i am even happier.
I have to say the Bambu A1 Mini has been a game changer for me. I wouldn't own a 3D printer otherwise. While it doesn't really "just work" as the hype would have it (I believe this is impossible with current tech), it comes pretty damn close. Probably the printer that does it best.
I didn't want another hobby, fiddling with settings and materials, and generally going down the 3D printing rabbit hole. I just wanted to print stuff for my actual hobbies. And the A1 does this, with little fuss, for which I am forever grateful.
I have the A1 Mini as well. Mostly having sat unused since I bought it a few years back, I'm now wondering if the thing will function normally again. Any advice on basic "cold boot" maintenance? It's been a year since I last turned it on.
Shouldn't require much. Very light oil (ideally the oil that came with it) on the rails, wash the removable build plate with basic soap and water (may be dusty from sitting), and then run a test benchy to clear out any filament in the hotend.
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I've had it paused for some months, and just a bit of WD40 and re-running the auto calibration was enough maintenance in my case. Maybe I was lucky?
Have you owned any other printers?
So much of this opinion sounds like a Bambu ad read from YouTube, as if they're the only ones making printers that just work now, like a Prusa can't crank out perfect first layers without breaking a sweat.
The A1 Mini was my first printer, which is of course biases my opinion of other printers.
I've bought many, many other printers since then, and every time I've gotten something other than a Bambu Lab printer I've been disappointed, and ended up returning them or selling them.
Creality's K1 Plus was great, but regularly needed the extruder disassembled to get broken filament out.
Anycubic Kobra 3 Max regularly failed to keep prints on the bed. I bought 2 Elegoo Centauri Carbons. The first has been out of commission since the extruder went haywire, and I couldn't get replacement parts without going through some random support chat app, and the 2nd one's build plate delaminated the first weekend I had the printer.
The Snapmaker U1 I'm pretty happy with, but when I first got it, I learned you have to be very gentle with how you put the spools on, as it can pop an internal plastic panel off with interferes with the Y-axis.
Prusas are good, but price and availability are issues (I bought all the above new at my local Microcenter). I do have an older Prusa MK3 that I bought for an pellet extruder conversion, but for a printer with no online capabilities and a need to manually level it via paper, it cost more used than a new Bambu Lab P1S. I'm okay with putting your money where your ideology is, but imagine if the only alternative to an iPhone's walled garden was a $2000 Android.
As I said in my comment, the Bambu is the printer that made me try. Every other video or review I've seen, from multiple enthusiasts who use other brands, makes it clear any other printer (at least ~2 years ago when I bought it) was "a hobby into itself", most definitely what I did NOT want.
I do not want a hobby, I already have way too many. I wanted something plug and play, zero fuss, and the A1 Mini delivers.
If that reads like an ad to you, I don't know what to say.
This is part of the reason their attempts frustrate me so much. I love my A1 Mini but I do not want to support this kind of behavior so I will probably go to another company if I ever upgrade.
Found a clone here: https://github.com/unS0uL/OrcaSlicer-bambulab
Mind you, Bambulab has region Locks on Chinese-version hardware which are strictly disabled overseas. What's the difference between these version? Nothing. Just oversea versions are more expensive.
Pawel Jarczak could consider donating the code to an anonymous random friend who happened to upload it to a chinese code forge where development could continue.
Who are some 3D printer vendors that are worthy of support?
I would have said Prusa a year or two ago but they've reneged a little on their open-ness. That was probably in response to Bambu being fully closed and gaining so much market share.
The Core line of printers seems promising and a big leap towards closing the gap towards Bambu's corexy printers but haven't used one yet and I've been out of the game a little. Bambu though is probably more of a high-end appliance type than Prusas more utilitarian feel.
I splurged a while ago and got a pre-assembled Core One. It worked great right out of the box and is has been worry-free so far. So far, I've treated it very much like an appliance with no tinkering on my part yet.
The machine is still quite hackable. Prusa publishes the firmware and CAD files for their printers, although the CAD files aren't under a fully open license. The support is generally nice to people who tinker with their printers and sometimes even seems to be genuinely invested in seeing tinkering projects succeed.
I'd say Prussa.
I am not going to say they are perfect, but I think they have a good balance of ethics, openness, product quality, innovation, availability and price. By that I mean their are the best in none of them, but I don't think of anything better as a combination.
Prusa sat on its haunches for a decade, happy to leave progress on the table as long as their salaries got paid. Bambu actually got non-technical people into the hobby and has always had more bang per buck.
Buy a bambu; use Orcaslicer
Edit: didn't mean to say "held the industry back"; I would categorize my opinion more along the lines of "were happy to get fat on past offerings" or the like.
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I just bought a qidi printer. It arrives in a few days, so I can’t speak to the machine’s quality beyond saying it’s reviewed pretty well - but the software is all open source klipper with no locks preventing you from modifying it. The hardware itself is closed source, but if you want an open hardware machine in 2026 you need to build your own voron.
I have a Prusa MK3S and it has been very very reliable. There's also a ton of mods you can download and print, which modify or extend the printer for specific use cases. They are a bit more expensive then their Chinese counterparts, but in my opinion, it's definitely worth the extra cost for the peace of mind.
Get a VORON printer and get a kit.
They're completely open (both software and hardware) and you can mod and do whatever the hell you want with them.
+1, my wife and I have been working on a VORON 2.4 together and it's been a blast!
Obviously it depends on what you’re doing and what is importante to you. It’s hard to beat Bambi Labs H2D or X2D for versatility, practicality, and price. Engineering filaments are getting a lot cheaper as the market expands so it helps to have a printer than can handle those. Given Bambi Labs is so cheap compared to the alternatives customers would probably be better off putting aside the savings to buy a second printer from a different supplier when one starts to catch up.
As I mentioned in a sibling comment, I bought a qidi q2 because i am gambling that they have caught up in terms of quality. The price is comparable to the bambu p1s, while the specs are closer to the x1c. Reviews seem to put it roughly on par with the p2s, which costs 30% more.
It’s clear nobody’s caught up in terms of ux / user friendliness - but as an experienced printer i don’t need my hand held quite as much - and the openness is worth a lot to me. Being able to define custom klipper macros alone makes it worth it to me to stay away from bambu
Prusa. And my Raise3D E2 has been solid for ~5 years. I can't directly compare it to Bambu, but it was a massive step up from the Creality Ender it replaced. It's a "Just works" machine.
Prusa is the most open of the printer manufacturers. They did have to backtrack a bit because Bambu copied their slicer to use for themselves and undercut them, but they're still as open as you can get in a capitalist economy.
30 Million requests per day is not coming from hobbyists, and even if it were, a $40/month VPS can handle that easily.
We see again and again how companies, even those affiliated with open source, want to milk the ecosystem dry. In this case Bambu Lab does so via the golden cloud. This is not ethical to try to sabotage the ecosystem, so Bambu Lab indeed needs to go bleep itself here.
My X1C lived for 3 months, never ending quality issues, never ending CF rod noise, etc, etc.
Mind you, LAN mode didn't exist, we had to use SFT to send files to the printer locally.
I build a DIY LDO Voron Trident and it is slice and print.
More people should be angry companies are stealing products from customers by effectively bricking them for certain use cases.
Louis Rossmann isn't polite, but he cuts though the corporate speak.
I trust BambuLabs about as much as I trust the Chinese Communist Party. That's to say, that they are obviously a cat's paw of the CCP, and bring the reactionary, authoritarian attitude with them, whilst using every underhanded, sneaky trick in the book to put Western manufacturers out of business, and ultimately compromise the West's ability to defend itself.
As a Westerner, I value my freedom, so I will happy pay way over the [Chinese-imposed] odds to build a 3D printer of my own than suck on the teat of the CCP and buy a subsidised 3D printer that attacks our freedoms.
I would encourage other right-thinking people who value freedom, democracy and rule-of-law to do the same: build your own or -- at the very least -- support Western 3D printer vendors like Prusa who share our values and contribute back to the community.
I like Rossman and usually agree with him, but imo hes a very bad speaker. I cant watch his videos. His problem is that, instead of getting to the point, he spends an inordinate amount of time pre-defending against bad faith arguments he assumes he will receive in response to his point. Thats just pointless imo, he should just make his point and if idiots dont get it then who cares, I dont think theres anything we can do for them anyway.
Currently looking for a printer, and stories like this one are what I'm looking for, thanks.
Well great. I bought an h2c a couple of months ago before learning this was going down.
They just can’t help themselves, they want market share and the margins
I mean considering how absolutely fucked the 2d printing space has been (HP) It's not surprising that 3d printing will involve identical shenanigans once it becomes even slightly mainstream. And that's what Bambu does, make 3d printing accessible.
Reminds me of:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/tQIdxbWhHSM
Nowhere in TFA did they say what OrcaSlicer does. I must be expected to go to the GitHub and find out for myself!
A slicer is software that takes a 3d model file and "slices" it for 3d printing. It outputs a series of instructions for a 3d printer to build up a physical object, layer by layer (slice by slice). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slicer_(3D_printing)
Particularly relevant for this discussion is this part of that page, showing the lineage of the various software involved. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slicer_(3D_printing)#List_of_s...
Damn this is like a variation of the Streisand Effect [1]
I am not involved in this industry so I never heard of the company or the youtuber before reading this. I am tempted to buy one just to make some things (that I don't need but might be fun to make).
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect
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Bambu Labs is completely ignoring their legal duties under the AGPL code they used while trying to make others comply to their licensing terms through abuse of the legal system.
Nobody forced them to use said code, they chose to when it was in their best interest and now they renege on the part in the license (the only thing that gives them a right to use and build on said code) when they deem it not in their interest any longer and think they're big enough to squash individuals protesting.
Nothing wrong there, right, chairman?
If you are referring to his video from May 2023, "Why I deleted GrapheneOS", it is about the team lead, Daniel Micay, not about GrapheneOS itself. He, in fact, praises GrapheneOS to no end in the very same video.
Perhaps the fact that he brings petty interpersonal drama wherever he goes is the root of the complaint?
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So just don't comment?
he projects a lot of is emotional issues into his work. I support what he does, but he appears to make himself miserable in the process.
I think there is an element of audience capture. Similar to how ElectroBOOM has to keep electrocuting himself for his audience. It’s a living…
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When was the last time Rossmann had anything nice to say? He seems utterly miserable. I don’t doubt this is an important issue, but when he inserts himself into a dispute, it only gets more overblown and vitriolic on all sides.
(The ridiculous NYC to Austin thing is pretty representative. Complained incessantly about loony liberal New York, moved to Austin, now he complains about Texas. Sorry! Turns out there is no utopia for pathological contrarians.)
He's just like Steve nowadays - he built his entire brand on being angry, so he has to be angry or his core audience will leave. And if that's what you like then fine, but for me it's just not interesting anymore.
It's the sad thing about field experts who become YouTubers: to keep up the viewership, they undergo self-Flanderization.
I was sad to watch Sabine Hossenfelder devolve from a level-headed critic of how research is done, into a loony crank who selects the contrarian angle on every issue. I'm sure the YouTube analytics inform her which topics perform better.
His rants were more palpable when he blasted the design of PCB visible on screen, or vendor that didn't want to sell replacement parts, when viewer could see the damage at the same time. Now he is just another guy with mic. And while he fights for good cause I find his videos at least 5 times too long considering the actual content.
...or, or(!) maybe things really do suck right now? I don't think this is a controversial view. There's reasons to be upset and demand change regarding intellectual property legislation and computing and related technology's hardware.
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Yeah he's often not in a good mood, but at least he points out these things, and I understand it can get you worked up if you're investigating these things and come to these concerning discoveries. I'm happy someone is doing that work, even if it's not fun. And he seemed to have taken up that job, and I think he's doing it well, albeit he is sometimes a bit intense, but I would forgive him that.
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