Pretty sure the million dollars was not meant seriously. There are plenty of regulated fields in which people still participate, despite various risks of liability. Professional engineers, doctors, every Uber driver in the US, who could potentially be punished for negligent driving while on the job. The point, I think, is that the current level of responsibility for writing bad code is essentially zero, but should probably be higher for some applications.
> the current level of responsibility for writing bad code is essentially zero, but should probably be higher for some applications
I agree that e.g. working on an OS should require guild-type credentials. But I don't know if most SWEs understand the professional-standards requirements such organisations are empowered to enforce on their members.
I'm generally against credentials, at least any system that would lead to loss of freedoms for hobbyists and small timers.
I guess credential requirements that only applied to specific limited contexts could work. As much as I value individual economic freedom and open competition perhaps (for example) medical, passenger jet, and certain military firmware ought to be written only by thoroughly vetted professionals with extensive track records.
But in general I think personal and corporate liability is probably the better way of going about it. I'd argue the current problems exist almost entirely due to perverse financial incentives.
I most definitely don't agree with him, and I find the idea absolutely repugnant. Devils advocate though, I would be much more careful with the code that I write if regulators passed some dogshit law like that.
I understand that, though I wouldn't stop. I'd just go much slower and radically change my methodology. Failures in other engineering domains come with massive legal consequences, and they have for a very long time. In mesopotamia if a house collapsed and killed someone inside, the builder was put to death. People still built houses in the hundreds of thousands.
It really just introduces a legal burden to prove competence and work in good-faith, and nets immense power to throw out ridiculous deadlines. Your managers are legally responsible too, and if they push beyond what's reasonable you have just cause to bring them to court in a way that you currently don't. To re-emphasize, I don't think this is a better world, but it's not unlivable.
Well, one scenario would be that everybody who writes code would do so for money.
Take my friend who is a property lawyer. The firm she works for buys her insurance, because it would be insane to operate without insurance, but the only available insurance is personal insurance, it insures a specific person to do property law. So, although her day job is helping that $100Bn farm equipment company buy a $10M new factory from a $100Bn construction firm, at the weekend she is covered by that same insurance when she represents her friend buying a $500k cottage. AIUI this is a completely normal arrangement.
If that was the situation for programming, the company is going to buy your $100M exploit insurance because they need a programmer, but it's personal insurance so you could work on your Game jam game using the same insurance, and it'd be crazy to just "Go commando" if you don't have employment and thus insurance, in case somehow your "Galaga but also Blue Prince and somehow a visual novel" Game jam entry causes a $10M damages payment.
Pretty sure the million dollars was not meant seriously. There are plenty of regulated fields in which people still participate, despite various risks of liability. Professional engineers, doctors, every Uber driver in the US, who could potentially be punished for negligent driving while on the job. The point, I think, is that the current level of responsibility for writing bad code is essentially zero, but should probably be higher for some applications.
> the current level of responsibility for writing bad code is essentially zero, but should probably be higher for some applications
I agree that e.g. working on an OS should require guild-type credentials. But I don't know if most SWEs understand the professional-standards requirements such organisations are empowered to enforce on their members.
I'm generally against credentials, at least any system that would lead to loss of freedoms for hobbyists and small timers.
I guess credential requirements that only applied to specific limited contexts could work. As much as I value individual economic freedom and open competition perhaps (for example) medical, passenger jet, and certain military firmware ought to be written only by thoroughly vetted professionals with extensive track records.
But in general I think personal and corporate liability is probably the better way of going about it. I'd argue the current problems exist almost entirely due to perverse financial incentives.
I most definitely don't agree with him, and I find the idea absolutely repugnant. Devils advocate though, I would be much more careful with the code that I write if regulators passed some dogshit law like that.
I would stop writing code for money.
I understand that, though I wouldn't stop. I'd just go much slower and radically change my methodology. Failures in other engineering domains come with massive legal consequences, and they have for a very long time. In mesopotamia if a house collapsed and killed someone inside, the builder was put to death. People still built houses in the hundreds of thousands.
It really just introduces a legal burden to prove competence and work in good-faith, and nets immense power to throw out ridiculous deadlines. Your managers are legally responsible too, and if they push beyond what's reasonable you have just cause to bring them to court in a way that you currently don't. To re-emphasize, I don't think this is a better world, but it's not unlivable.
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Well, one scenario would be that everybody who writes code would do so for money.
Take my friend who is a property lawyer. The firm she works for buys her insurance, because it would be insane to operate without insurance, but the only available insurance is personal insurance, it insures a specific person to do property law. So, although her day job is helping that $100Bn farm equipment company buy a $10M new factory from a $100Bn construction firm, at the weekend she is covered by that same insurance when she represents her friend buying a $500k cottage. AIUI this is a completely normal arrangement.
If that was the situation for programming, the company is going to buy your $100M exploit insurance because they need a programmer, but it's personal insurance so you could work on your Game jam game using the same insurance, and it'd be crazy to just "Go commando" if you don't have employment and thus insurance, in case somehow your "Galaga but also Blue Prince and somehow a visual novel" Game jam entry causes a $10M damages payment.
4 replies →