Comment by marcus_holmes
3 hours ago
I work on a ton of different stuff, and this clause comes up for every job. I get them to remove it, or I don't accept the job offer.
For me, this is a red/green flag on management. The clause is legal boilerplate, inserted because it's standard and they can. They don't actually care that much about anything you might build outside of work. If they won't (or can't) remove it then the organisation is inflexible and the people who are hiring me have no power within it. Or the people who are hiring me don't understand my point of view. This is a bad sign either way.
I have had one "win" with it; I worked for a company run by a trio of absolute arseholes. One of them called a meeting and tried to bully me into handing over one of my projects because of this clause. I explained that my contract didn't have that clause because they removed it before I signed it. He got angry. But couldn't actually do anything about it.
> remove it then the organisation is inflexible and the people who are hiring me have no power within it
Bingo. That’s my assessment as well, usually this stage is where any company tries to show their best behavior, good way to filter out the bad ones. But surprisingly it’s getting very common, contracts used to be before a one pager stating the salary and some other benefits, right now it’s a submission contract, and setting up the power dynamics before you even do anything. Another contract I turned down was also full of questionable clauses (like you should work more than 48h a week when needed, overriding the common law with maximum 48hrs, and up to interpretation: “needed”), and none of the benefits discussed were written there, not even a reference to XYZ internal policy or similar, meanwhile, they had so much written against you not just while doing the work but even after you leave, that they could ruin your future career if they chose to. I believe there should be a federal centralized system govern these contracts and ensure each contract is in compliance, easy to implement by having a contract builder that add clauses to it while giving margin to each party to customize other clauses to their liking. Otherwise, a lot of people will get exploited, that contract I had with that company they refused to change anything justified by it being a “template”.. it doesn’t feel like a contract anymore since contracts are made to be negotiated, it feels like signing up for a SaaS service where if you don’t agree to the entirety of it, you are out, except for jobs you’re not the customer.
> contract I had with that company they refused to change anything justified by it being a “template”
yeah that's the thing. Firstly, that's not how templates work. Secondly, that's not how contracts work. And if they won't or can't change it, then what does that say about the rest of your experience working there?
As for non-competes. They are illegal in some places. And unenforceable. But there's a difference between "technically unenforceable" and "they're still going to take you to court and you have to defend that, which is expensive".