Comment by BearOso
5 days ago
Going from Opus 4.5 to 4.7 secretly required 6x more compute to run. 4.8 is apparently 30% more on top. I haven't seen any optimizations lately aside from distillation. Nobody's optimizing, they're just scaling up.
5 days ago
Going from Opus 4.5 to 4.7 secretly required 6x more compute to run. 4.8 is apparently 30% more on top. I haven't seen any optimizations lately aside from distillation. Nobody's optimizing, they're just scaling up.
> Nobody's optimizing
The Chinese, since they lack computing hardware due to US export controls, are.
And our export controls are going to turn China into a winner in the AI arms race if we're not careful.
I retired a few years ago, but I still write a fair bit of code. I was using Copilot's code completion before I retired, but coding agents hadn't come around yet. I've been wanting to try them, but I kept putting it off, and now the price increases make it hard to justify.
So I just started trying CodeWhale (https://github.com/Hmbown/CodeWhale) with DeepSeek V4. I expected to be impressed by the abilities (which still require plenty of oversight). I didn't expect to be completely shocked by how cheep it is. After most of a week of using it 4-8 hours a day, which would amount to a full week of coding in many jobs after you account for non-coding activities, I'm about to hit $3 in total usage. So we're talking $10-20 per month for single-agent use by a full time software developer? And I'm sure some of my usage is waste as I'm still getting my head around things like compaction. If I take a break for a few weeks, I pay nothing because there is no subscription.
If DeepSeek and Xiaomi MiMo stay within a few months of the US-based models in terms of capabilities and US companies don't figure out how to drastically cut prices, I can't see how China hasn't already won. Protectionism would be one reason, but that might be ceding 50-90% of the total addressable market, and bring us closer to moving knowledge work out of the US the same way we did with manufacturing because it's too expensive in the US.
3 replies →
DeepSeek and Alibaba would like to have a word.
Hasn't everything DeepSeek and Alibaba created thus far been distilled from the results of many, many accounts logging into Claude and ChatGPT? And that's why there's so much bot detection now at US frontier labs? Doesn't that make the Chinese labs dependent until some unknown point in the future on advancements of US frontier labs? While what they currently provide is cheap, it seems like it's artificially cheap and somewhat static because they took others' intellectual property (no comment needed about US frontier labs stealing the world's knowledge... that's a separate topic).
> Hasn't everything DeepSeek and Alibaba created thus far been distilled from the results of many, many accounts logging into Claude and ChatGPT?
I doubt it is really any different to what the US labs do [1]. I never really bought the "they were basically all just distilling from us" shtick from Anthropic, I just assumed they were either comparing or also creating training data as basically any lab is doing.
[1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/ClaudeCode/comments/1tqaist/opus_48...
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