Comment by freediddy
1 day ago
Most sane US companies will disallow use of cloud-based Chinese AI providers, because everything including code, data, PII, etc is being sent to them.
1 day ago
Most sane US companies will disallow use of cloud-based Chinese AI providers, because everything including code, data, PII, etc is being sent to them.
Then don't use the cloud-based Chinese providers, use cloud-base US/EU providers using Chinese models. The interesting Chinese models are all open making this issue mostly moot.
A key point here is open in terms of being able to download and use it, not open as knowing what data and instructions were fed into it when training.
A paranoid part of me thinks that these models are all inherently biased and instructed to be pro CCP, with specific gaps in their training data related to undesirable historic events and political ideas.
The same thing applies to US models. Check out various system prompt leak repos on github. There are also prompt injections by various parallel "alignment" models that pre-process the prompt before it's sent to the main one with questionable guidance.
You'd be surprised how much of bias exists in easily extractable information. Now imagine how much of that happens during training, that you can't easily extract.
So this is largely a moot point. Yes, Chinese models will likely have some weird things injected into them. But so do the US models. Do I care? Not in the slightest. Models are my code monkeys, and if the code leaves my machine, I assume IP is leaked be it a Chinese model that clearly tells me they do use the data, or US models that pinky promise they don't.
Sure but that goes both ways. Any dataset has a bias. My coding doesn’t need to know about Tienamen square.
Applies both ways, ask it about Israel.
Saner companies ask the same question about models from their own country too.
I wonder if I could start a US-based company with good data regulation and just serve open-weight models at a competitive price. I feel like the real barrier is just that most companies willing to adopt AI usage enough to make it worth it at this point don't want to be using inferior models.
Here's a free startup idea: operate an open-weight model service, and offer "Verified AI Integrity," which signs the input tokens, the seed for the randomness in selecting outputs, and the model ID, proving that the result of the call to AI was completely "organic" and was not interfered with.
Your main audience would be snake oil salesmen trying to prove their AI products are unbiased and not under the thumb of any outside influence. This doesn't address the biases of the model itself, but that's not your business. Your business is selling tokens and security certificates. If you can get the right angel investor, you could maybe have your new standard required for some government applications.
Yes, you can. There are multiple inference providers out there. The problem is, it’s hard to beat the Chinese providers in cost. And you also have to compete with frontier model providers’ subsidized offerings.
They charge the exact same prices. So many people in these comments have no idea what they're talking about. Even if they did charge less, nobody is going to deal with the latency of sending requests to China.
edit: Actually American inference providers are cheaper for Chinese models. There's way more competition here because the Chinese aren't idiots and investing every last dollar they have into data centers for llms that don't make money..
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There are plenty of US-based inference providers available, including AWS, that serve Chinese models at competitive prices (vs frontier US models). They also have lots of usage. Not necessarily for coding, but for other enterprise tasks.
Have you heard of openrouter? There's 1000 of these companies already. Do something else.
It's called AWS. Bedrock is right there. Price or data policy is never the issue. The models themselves are the problem -- most large US companies are not going to touch them.
Source: directly involved in these discussions. You can downvote as much as you'd like but you can't ignore the facts.
> The models themselves are the problem -- most large US companies are not going to touch them.
Can you expand on this?
1 reply →
You can run DeepSeek as it's open weights, unlike Claude or GPT.
Do you trust OpenAI with your code, data, PII? What makes you so sure it's not all part of the next training set anyway?
There are some objections here saying that some US firms are using Chinese AI providers, but I wonder if any of those are subject to compliance. Large firms that are disproportionately responsible for AI spending are all subject to compliance.
Deepseek has some models in Bedrock. There is definitely a huge market for a "good enough" model running within the country of the company
> Deepseek has some models in Bedrock.
Just looked into it, seems like at most they have just 3.2, not 4: https://aws.amazon.com/bedrock/pricing/
Looking around their catalogue more, most of their models seem quite outdated, aside from the OpenAI and Anthropic ones (but those get more expensive). I wouldn't willingly pick Bedrock and would instead throw money at OpenRouter, that has both a bunch of providers, as well as almost any model for you to try.
Azure AI Foundry has Deepseek 4
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