Comment by PedroBatista
2 days ago
The cheapest EV model Renault sells is around €20K, the cheapest BMW EV is around €65K.
It's safe to say the companies are not in the market bracket, no?
2 days ago
The cheapest EV model Renault sells is around €20K, the cheapest BMW EV is around €65K.
It's safe to say the companies are not in the market bracket, no?
The bit the gets me more than the sale price is servicing.
BMWs have a terrible record for needing expensive repairs.
I know you shouldn’t rely on anecdote, but it seems I do.
The only way I would buy a BMW is if it were an EV. I’m just not brave (or rich) enough to buy their ICEs.
The BMW inline 6 were the best engines ever. Their inline 4 and other are a strong contender for the worst engines ever.
2 replies →
EVs? That makes no sense. EVs are so much simpler to maintain compared to ICEs.
They suffer from some of the same problem your likely modern fridge does, and then kick it up two notches.
In the name of "safety", they have made design decisions such as integrating fuses directly into the very large and expensive control boards and making them non-replacable. Just in case this wasn't enough, they also tend to blow an OTP so that in the event that you have the know how to replace the fuses anyways, nothing will work. Naturally you also cannot just swap in a replacement board, as it needs to go through the same pairing process to the ECU as things like the car doors, which in most cases requires an active certificate/license on the ecu programmer that only dealerships/oem have.
2 replies →
In theory they should be, but EVs also tend to be more computerised, proprietary and locked down than ICE cars, so in practice I think it's not as simple as that.
For example there was that case of the car that needed an entire new sealed €5k battery controller because it was in a minor crash and blew a fuse.
My garage charges 50% more for labour on EVs. I'm sure part of that is price discrimination but I bet part is also because working on them is more difficult. I would not be surprised if they need to pay more for access to the manufacturer's diagnostic tools too, which are becoming increasingly required.
Simpler != more reliable. Electronics fail quite often too. Just ask SSDs.
Also new EVs fail often too due to being cost cut to the extreme with the "move fast and break things".
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If you take care of the car it’s just brake pads, tires, rotors. Pads and rotors are really simple to DIY. Tires are more expensive than like… an Elantra, but if you’re buying a 60k car you can afford 1.2k in tires… otherwise don’t buy the car.
If you get into an accident or let the bmw get into disrepair via neglect, yeah it’s not cheap to clean up. Body work is expensive on any car though, and I don’t have sympathy for people who own higher-end cars and don’t take care of them, they deserve to pay the price for it.
It's more than that though. Any repairs due to wear and tear or whatever, ends up being really expensive. Although you can probably reduce the costs a bit if you get the non-branded OEM part or potentially the same part from another manufacturer (e.g. the toyota supra uses a lot of bmw parts so if the toyota part might be cheaper than the same bmw part).
11 replies →
Mostly just tires and minor maintenance. You're unlikely to need pad and rotor replacements unless you're driving as if you were on a racetrack every single day.
With daily EV driving you have the opposite problem - regen means you rarely, if ever, actually activate the brakes, so you get rust on them that you need to clean out.
It's still good to know that SOTA is further, and we can expect the more advanced designs to seep into more affordable segments.
They share the same OEMs, and both are following the same ex-China automotive strategy.
Renault has also been thumbing China recently for undermining EU manufacturing as well [0] while China has returned to using Wolf Warrior diplomacy against Europe [1][2][3][4] using the same rhetoric that the Trump admin uses.
Of course, under the Xi admin China's foreign policy has always viewed the EU as inferior and a has-been [5] and has become an active participant in the Ukraine War [6][7].
Europe might not be able to trust the US, but it can't trust China either.
[0] - https://www.reuters.com/world/china/renault-ceo-asks-eu-enco...
[1] - https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202605/1361926.shtml
[2] - https://www.chinausfocus.com/finance-economy/dear-brussels-d...
[3] - https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202605/1362161.shtml
[4] - http://news.china.com.cn/2026-06/10/content_118541873.shtml
[5] - https://fddi.fudan.edu.cn/_t2515/57/f8/c21257a743416/page.ht...
[6] - https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/russians-...
[7] - https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2026/06/12/8039041/
only replying to the first link: isn't sourcing (buying or manufacturing locally) parts for Chinese cars made in Europe a good thing?
It is, but the PRC has been pushing back against sourcing from within Europe and only intends to use CDKs to assemble EVs. This is what the EU is pushing back against.
What EU states are now lobbying for is if BYD wants to sell an EV in the EU, it should include European originated parts. Just assembling a knockdown kit in Hungary whose parts were all manufactured in China is not "Made in Europe". If BYD or MG wants to sell a BYD or MG car in the EU, they should source the battery pack and powertrain from the EU.
Alternatively, the PRC can drop similar origination requirements from it's domestic market.
The reality is the PRC won't back down, so they will be tariffed by the EU, especially as the EU has lost patience with the PRC due to their active involvement in the Russia-Ukraine War [0], attempting to use diplomatic immunity to kidnap a French national [1], and attempting to embargo the EU's rare earth imports [2].
Additionally, it's easier for the EU to push back against China versus the US while also winning brownie points in the US.
[0] - https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/russians-...
[1] - https://www.lemonde.fr/societe/article/2024/07/02/deux-espio...
[2] - https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/china-...
1 reply →
> following the same ex-China automotive strategy
Is that why Renault EVs (R5, Twingo) are wholesale developed in China? Doesn't seem very ex-to me, more an in- type of strategy.
Why do you think the R5 was developed in China? Renault have been quite open about all the improvements they had to make to their processes, development centres and factories in France to make it. The Twingo was partially developed in China.
The EV batteries are sourced from Ampere and LG (in the EU) and the EESM from Valeo (in the EU).
Sharing platforms isn't something EU manufacturers are opposed to, but they do not want to be dependent on Chinese supply chains. That is the crux of ExChina, especially as the majority of an EV's value is derived from the battery and powertrain.
BMW also produces Mini EVs, which start at £26,840
The cheapest Minis are made by GWM in China, and are using different motors and batteries.
However, comparing prices between cars nowadays is a complicated matter. BMW's iX1 and iX2 (they use the BMW EESM motors) theoretically cost about €55k, but they have been very recently available to lease for about €250 euro per month - so pretty much for the same price as the cheapest electric Renault if leased.
same order of magnitude :)