Comment by underlipton

1 month ago

>I finally got it solved by buying drinks for a buddy of mine that works for LinkedIn

I'd like people to understand that this is a form of corruption. We've normalized many like it. LI knows that the only way to force them to fix the issue is to go through a drawn-out legal process, save a spate of bad press (RIP 60 Minutes), so of course they won't.

I agree with you. I used to work for an ISP that sold kind-of overpriced 1Gbps connections and always wondered why customers bought it. Probably helping things was that we took them out to "events", floor seats at basketball, etc. The company just has a fixed expense, but the people making the decision get free stuff that makes them feel important, and it was kind of a way of transferring the company's money (by not buying the $29/month Internet connection) to themselves. I never felt good about it, but if you say that out loud, everyone will look at you like you're crazy.

AWS did this for us at the time but the 3 people in the company that used AWS services never got to go to these things. So I doubly don't get it.

  • Vendor bribe swag is basically ubiquitous in the industrial world. When I worked in oil and gas it was quite common for a vendor to do a 'lunch and learn' where they bought the whole office very good lunch and we listened to them pitch whatever product line they wanted us to specify for design customers. I work in a more socially responsible but less lucrative industry now and alas no vendors buying me lunch

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  • That sure is an interesting take from someone with "anarchist" in their username. IMHO corruption is any time you use power/influence/station in order to skew the normal well-behaved channels of governance (cybernetics) for personal gain. Any system with hierarchy can have corruption. Bernie Madoff was an example of illegal, private industry corruption.

    • I'm not fond of that definition for a couple of reasons:

      1. praxeologically, all individuals act for personal gain, which is subjective in nature;

      2. most private corporations don't have a well-defined governance (aside from the occasional constitution), specially ones that rely on gift/favor-based economies, such as seen in certain tribes. Governments tend to be an exception due their unique legal nature.

      Bernie Madoff's case can best described as a Ponzi scheme, a form of massive fraud scheme.

      In a sibling comment, I realized that "corruption" isn't a defined crime in most jurisdictions, aside from Brazil, for some reason, so it's kind of wrong of me to say that corruption is legally defined.

      Still, my particular peeve here is the implication of immoral conduct without context on LinkedIn's own rules.

  • > corruption necessarily envolves the government

    False. [0] If the bank teller demands a bribe to let you withdraw from your account, that's corruption, even though they aren't working for the government.

    > Corruption is the dishonest, fraudulent, or criminal use of entrusted authority or power for personal gain or other unlawful or unethical benefits. Corruption occurs in politics, business, education, media, and other social and economic fields.

    [0] https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/corruption

    • That's either the crime of extortion (which is more broad than corruption) or failing to comply with official duties, which will likely result in firing. When I spoke of the crime of corruption, as expanded in a sibling comment, I was referring to a charge labelled "corruption". It seems, under US, there isn't a law against corruption per se, but against variations of fraud, extortion, etc. Unlike Brazil, for instance, where corruption is, specifically, a crime against the public administration. Still, my bad.

      I concede that, outside of formal law, one can describe certain deviations of official attributions of private corps.' agents as corruption.

  • Bwahaha, no it doesn’t.

    Legally ‘corruption’ doesn’t exist, as in there is no single law saying ‘corruption is illegal’. (What is ‘corruption’ exactly?)

    There are laws against bribery, which does generally only apply to the government, but in many locations applies to pseudo-government roles like notaries, apostiloes, lawyers, etc.

    There are laws against embezzlement (a type of corruption), and those definitely apply to private individuals.

    There are laws against insider trading, a type of corruption. Those generally only apply to businesses/private folks, not the government, with some exceptions.

    Then there is the various kinds of fraud, blackmail, etc. Most people would consider them corruption too. Those apply to private individuals and government agents too.

    And many more. It’s a smorgasbord.

    • Brazillian law, for instance, defines the crimes of passive and active corruption:

        The Penal Code, in Article 317, defines the crime of passive corruption as "soliciting or receiving, for oneself or for others, directly or indirectly, even if outside the function or before assuming it, an undue advantage, or accepting a promise of such an advantage." [0]
      
        Active corruption, committed by an outsider, who offers or promises an undue advantage, is provided for in Article 333 of the Brazilian Penal Code. [1]
      

      But, granted, revieweing US and UK law, it seems they don't define "corruption" as a crime (albeit some of the act names do mention corruption). So let's fallback onto the dictionary: [2]

        a: dishonest or illegal behavior especially by powerful people (such as government officials or police officers) : depravity
      
        b: inducement to wrong by improper or unlawful means (such as bribery)
      
        c: a departure from the original or from what is pure or correct
      

      Both definition a and c are too ample and, as you put it, "a smorgasbord". Definition b, specially when combined with a, describes something pretty specific: inducement of a powerful agent to wrong by improper or unlawful means, such as bribes.

      Embezzlement is better typified under theft. Same goes for most of the others: fraud is fraud, blackmail is blackmail. They may acquire a "corrupt" character when they are done in direct exchange of personal material gains. There are discussions about whether insider trading should be illegal.

      Generally speaking, corruption is primarily a crime against public administration because it involves the government, which (supposedly) represents the people. Private companies represent themselves, so they get to (more) trivially decide who is on the line or not.

      [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive_corruption

      [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_corruption

      [2] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/corruption

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