{"id":48562881,"user":"scrollaway","time":1781647830,"time_ago":"16 days ago","type":"comment","content":"

This isn’t how training works.","comments":[{"id":48565779,"user":"skeptic_ai","time":1781671452,"time_ago":"16 days ago","type":"comment","content":"

I think he’s saying let’s say I’m your competitor and I need your code and you happen to use the same llm they will provide me a copy of your code.","comments":[{"id":48567482,"user":"rcxdude","time":1781685291,"time_ago":"16 days ago","type":"comment","content":"

Yeah, which hasn't been demonstrated in practice at all.","comments":[{"id":48571720,"user":"davebren","time":1781709670,"time_ago":"16 days ago","type":"comment","content":"

It has. LLMs being able to one-shot any higher-order complexity is entirely dependent on it already being in the training data.","comments":[{"id":48585600,"user":"scrollaway","time":1781791621,"time_ago":"15 days ago","type":"comment","content":"

If it has been demonstrated, you're welcome to cite a paper or even study of any kind. Right now, you're just guessing. (I head an AI lab, FYI)","comments":[{"id":48588432,"user":"davebren","time":1781802659,"time_ago":"15 days ago","type":"comment","content":"

You could just test it for yourself if you're actually interested in finding out (assuming you are a decent programmer, but your bio suggests you have no technical expertise in the area).","comments":[{"id":48592420,"user":"scrollaway","time":1781821137,"time_ago":"14 days ago","type":"comment","content":"

I was working in machine learning before you were old enough to take programming classes.

https://github.com/jleclanche

As I said, I founded and run a AI lab. Now get over yourself.","comments":[{"id":48597779,"user":"davebren","time":1781871884,"time_ago":"14 days ago","type":"comment","content":"

First I never made any claims about myself or appealed to my authority, that was you. I still don't see any evidence of any technical expertise in ML or in programming anything more complicated than python scripts. Maybe you weren't aware but often on the internet people make false claims about their expertise on something. There's thousands of "Visionary leader driving ethical AI innovation and strategic growth" CEOs that know next to nothing about the actual technology.

Anyway like I said you can just test it out yourself and find out that I'm correct. Every skilled programmer already knows this and can predict what kind of complexity an LLM won't be able to handle. And anyone working on LLMs should know that they are completely dependent on their training data. The entire scaling hypothesis was based on this.","comments":[{"id":48601039,"user":"scrollaway","time":1781890947,"time_ago":"14 days ago","type":"comment","content":"

There's open source ML&DL projects dating back 12 years on my github, I don't know what you're on about.

Regardless, your claim is "LLMs being able to one-shot any higher-order complexity is entirely dependent on it already being in the training data." which is currently unfalsifiable, and known by every AI researcher to be most likely wrong. You've also said it's "been demonstrated". So stop wasting people's time and link to the demonstration instead of hand-waving a "do it yourself you're smart".

Good lord, it's like talking to a bloody climate change denier, I swear.","comments":[{"id":48601791,"user":"davebren","time":1781894788,"time_ago":"14 days ago","type":"comment","content":"

I have neural net applications I programmed entirely myself from 16 years ago and all I see from you are some python scripts so I guess I win this stupid game I wasn't even trying to play.

You haven't made a single technical point outside your bloviated claims to authority. I can safely assume you're a fraud because this is exactly how frauds speak. Actual scientists and engineers don't argue from authority they go and test the hypothesis for themselves, the fact that you balk at my suggestion to do this is amusing.

I said you can do a basic test because this is the best way to see it directly for yourself. It's very easy to do especially for an eminent machine learning visionary leader as yourself. You ask the LLM to produce two apps of similar complexity and technical challenge from a software perspective, one that is already in its training data and one that isn't and see which its more successful at. This isn't some controversial take, nor is it "unfalsifiable".

There's also hundreds of benchmarks demonstrating where the limitations are for LLMs, or you can study the progression of LLMs in mathematics and where the gains have been made and see that this also agrees with me. You can watch Chris Hay's videos demonstrating exactly how LLMs perform math layer by layer. Why is everyone using LLMs for search? Because it's an extremely efficient compression of all its training data. Did they figure out the Studio Ghibli art-style all on their own spontaneausly? No, they were trained on Studio Ghibli content. There's so many ways to come to this conclusion. But you seem to be too busy sniffing your own farts to be interested in learning anything about the field though.","comments":[{"id":48602285,"user":"scrollaway","time":1781897424,"time_ago":"14 days ago","type":"comment","content":"

This pointless test you're suggesting is a few countries removed from your initial suggestion, which was as a reminder: "The people using it or their employers just don't realize any competitor will be able to ask the LLM to replicate their product and it will copy the codebase they uploaded to them" (which, yes, is unfalsifiable given the search space)

I mean, are you seriously trying to back off that original ridiculous claim into a "code in the training data is more likely to appear in the output than code that isn't"? And I'm the fraud? As I said before, get over yourself.","comments":[{"id":48602420,"user":"davebren","time":1781898139,"time_ago":"13 days ago","type":"comment","content":"

Yes a test showing an LLM can reproduce an app in its training data and not an equivalent complexity app that is not in its training data is equivalent to proving the statement I made that having your codebase trained on will allow a competitor to copy your product.

And yes, you are obviously a fraud.","comments":[],"comments_count":0,"level":10,"url":"item?id=48602420"}],"comments_count":1,"level":9,"url":"item?id=48602285"}],"comments_count":2,"level":8,"url":"item?id=48601791"}],"comments_count":3,"level":7,"url":"item?id=48601039"}],"comments_count":4,"level":6,"url":"item?id=48597779"}],"comments_count":5,"level":5,"url":"item?id=48592420"}],"comments_count":6,"level":4,"url":"item?id=48588432"}],"comments_count":7,"level":3,"url":"item?id=48585600"}],"comments_count":8,"level":2,"url":"item?id=48571720"}],"comments_count":9,"level":1,"url":"item?id=48567482"}],"comments_count":10,"level":0,"url":"item?id=48565779"}],"comments_count":11,"url":"item?id=48562881"}

Comment by scrollaway