Comment by kentm

5 days ago

Not that I want my kids looking at porn or violent content, but I’m far more concerned about man-o-sphere influencers than that other stuff.

53 comments

kentm

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sciencejerk  5 days ago

I had to Google "man-o-sphere". Is it particularly more dangerous or toxic than other identity-based activist communities? Genuinely curious to know

  • grey-area  5 days ago

    Yes, a lot of it involves denigrating women and an entitled and very rigid attitude towards the male place in society (alphas etc).

    This is incredibly toxic for young men growing up and the women they interact with.

    Some of the more prominent proponents are actual pimps (the Tate brothers).

  • ACCount37  4 days ago

    Maybe? "Identity-based activist communities" are incredibly toxic as a rule.

    Maybe there's lasting harm from engaging in them early. Or maybe it's better to get exposed to them early in your life, so that you have time to figure out why you don't want anything to do with them.

    Either way, it seems pretty clear that preventing children and teens from engaging them is a nonstarter. You can't get anywhere close to consensus on "this is harmful and should be banned" because, guess what, someone's entire identity is going to be built around such communities.

  • doginasuit  4 days ago

    I would say what sets it apart is the undercurrent of anger and grievance combined with the self destructive beliefs that are prevalent in the community. It's men and boys who struggle to find acceptance and belonging, maybe even for reasons that are initially sympathetic. But instead of healthy self-reflection and feedback, they find a distorted understanding of themselves and masculinity that only reinforces their isolation.

    • philipallstar  4 days ago

      This is just a caricature. It's like saying all women's spaces are bad because some female influencers tell their massive followings that men should pay for expensive shopping trips on the first date. This mischaracterisation through cherry picking is destructive.

      2 replies →

  • jrm4  4 days ago

    "Identity based activist communities" feels like a hilariously ham-fisted attempt to connect together extremely different groups.

lo_zamoyski  4 days ago

The "man-o-sphere" is pornographic. Look at the porn-brained Tate brothers for an example. That is their whole ethos and their souls are rotted out by it. Both are based in dehumanization and contempt for women and draws from the well of insecurity, viciousness, and psychological disorder. Both entrench and deepen psychological disorder and immorality.

I think the basic error is that we're making a concession to obscene content and the sophists in our midst who have spent decades deploying the garbage of moral relativism and fallacious appeals to "freedom" to defend evil. The argument for age verification here is weakened if, instead, the production and distribution of pornography is outlawed.

That you cannot perfectly enforce the law doesn't mean the law has no value or function. The purpose of the law is not undermined by imperfect enforcement, and it isn't exhausted by enforceability. Law is a teacher. Anti-porn laws would still carry psychological and social weight. They are a declaration of what is not tolerated and what is not good and contributes to the stigmatization of bad things. That creates a higher hurdle in people's minds to seek out and engage in such activity and creates shame around such activities that itself dissuades.

I would also add that pornography and drugs have a history of being used in psychological warfare. Oligarchs ruining society? Allow pornography and it will absorb people's attention and cripple them emotionally and rationally to neutralize them. Or consider the recent loosening of drug laws or debate about loosing them - which I do not accept is coincidental - to give people another dulling and numbing agent and an escape. It is in the corrupt interests of an oligarchic elite to corral the herd. The police baton is painful and creates a dangerous indignation and resentment, but pornography and drugs do not.

pphysch  5 days ago

Manosphere content is toxic and harmful but the hyperviolence and desensitisation of the former should not be downplayed. That's where the mass shooters evidently come from.

  • Balinares  5 days ago

    A hundred thousand furries consuming unfathomable amounts of porn without shooting up anyone kind of cast doubt about that point.

    • vharish  5 days ago

      And 99 out of hundred get tired of porn at some point. We all have watched it and moved on. If only one can shoot and move on.

    • sciencejerk  5 days ago

      Who is talking about furries? But Tyler James Robinson and Benjamin Jeffrey Smith. I guess that's only 2/100k to your point?

  • mschuster91  5 days ago

    > That's where the mass shooters evidently come from.

    Bollocks. European teenagers watch just as much porn and play GTA at age 10 and yet we don't end up having 12 children a day die from gun violence [1].

    Note, I'm not an anti-gun nut, I think German and British anti-gun laws are ridiculously strict. But the American way of dealing with guns is equally bad.

    [1] https://www.sandyhookpromise.org/resources/gun-violence-fact...

    • technothrasher  4 days ago

      > we don't end up having 12 children a day die from gun violence

      Note that this definition of "children" includes ages up 24 years old. Not that the US doesn't have a gun violence problem, but pretending 24 year olds are "children" in order to gain a better sound bite doesn't help anybody.

      1 reply →

  • nearlyepic  5 days ago

    > That's where the mass shooters evidently come from.

    I mean, quite a few have come from proto-manosphere circles, too. Elliot Rodger comes to mind.

    • scotty79  4 days ago

      Given how large it is, I don't think it's a high stat. Especially compared with other subcultures. And we don't blame feminism for every instance where a man is killed by a man hating woman.

      7 replies →

    • pphysch  4 days ago

      I wouldn't equate incel with manosphere. Manosphere is often hypersexual and about greed/consumption and being insecure and getting scammed, whereas inceldom is more hate-based.