Nah, I hate them with a passion as a merchant but I absolutely love them as a buyer and customer.
There is a reason why after all these years and other solutions they're still everywhere, and it's not because of their great tooling, their low fees or their awesome support for merchant. It's not because of market lock in either, at least here in Europe they're merely a middle man between my credit card or sepa bank account and the merchant. It's because buyers trust it.
Buyers don't trust stripe. Stripe is for the merchant.
As a buyer I don't trust Paypal. They use dark patterns to try to get me to sign in, then make it hard to sign out, and for whatever reason my account is wedged and even though it has the correct payment details, the payments all fail. The UI is antiquated and the embedded version that has the animated progress bar GIF is sketchy at best. The Venmo app (which Paypal owns) is jammed with crappy ads and an often-broken UI.
The advantage that PayPal offers me as a buyer is a middleman between the vendor and myself that I control. The vendor does not get any of my card or bank info, and if it’s a subscription I can easily cancel it at any time on the PayPal side without having to go through whatever dark patterns the vendor might have to prevent you unsubscribing.
As a buyer, I like something that's good for the merchant, because 99% of the time I'm buying from merchants who I trust way more than I trust the other buyers. Don't even want credit card middlemen if I have the choice.
Nah I thought I liked PayPal as a customer until I found out that they favor large merchants against the consumer. I had a problem with a product and the company was playing games with the warranty. I only had it for 3 months and it was already falling apart. I made a complaint with PP and it was auto denied.
I don't know about recently, but for many years paypal automatically sided with the customer.
We had many customers that would buy a 1 month sub then chargeback the whole amount after using it heavily for a few days, with a nonsense reason like "item not as described" or "unauthorized charge".
Yep I had a case where I bought something online and it was not as described. The merchant didn't respond to emails, I filed the PayPal chargeback and the case was taking ages as the merchant wasn't responding. They finally responded on the last day to basically say I got my item. Despite all my evidence I provided it didn't seem to matter. So I again would have to respond and now wait for PayPal to rule. I was getting so sick of it, I just filed a chargeback with my credit card company instead and they gave me the money back right away upfront and did their own investigation after the fact and ruled in my favour.
I have had PayPal work for me for refunds many years ago, but the problem is often how long the whole process takes and how long your money is held hostage. By the time you maybe get your money back, you've already had to pay off that money on your credit card (if you used credit for the PP transaction). I've found that when I do a chargeback via my credit card, they often give me the money back right away and then do an investigation. If it were to not go my way the money would get taken back. I think this feels more fair depending on the case. Some cases are pretty clear cut and there is no reason to hold your money hostage while they confirm what you said is truthful.
I did until October 2022, when PayPal published an update to its Acceptable Use Policy that threatened to fine users $2,500 for promoting "misinformation".
Like they were the arbiters of what is misinformation and worthy of economic penalty. While it was later rescinded, it was beyond the pale. It's proof that something is corrupt and completely out to lunch in their management, and I won't sign up again after deleting my account in protest.
Edit: So apparently they only removed the misinformation clause, and they may still seize $2,500 of your money if they alone decide you are guilty of "...the promotion of hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory or the financial exploitation of a crime...". People are worried about authoritarianism, yet meekly cede such powers to a corporation? It boggles the mind.
Yeah, any subscription I can push through PayPal, I do so, because I can cancel it directly on their end. I don't need to go through a ten click justification process with the merchant.
And as a consumer, I especially hate PayPal because they always try to screw me with their currency conversion rates by hiding the toggle button (and it happens that I sometimes forget to toggle over to my bank's currency conversion)
And only once have I ever won a payment dispute there (and that was as a merchant, not a buyer... lol)
Let me know where I can get PayPal's micropayment rates for the 80%+ of transactions (below US$12) that support ardour.org ...
We save almost US$0.25 per $1 transaction because of PayPal.
Nah, I hate them with a passion as a merchant but I absolutely love them as a buyer and customer.
There is a reason why after all these years and other solutions they're still everywhere, and it's not because of their great tooling, their low fees or their awesome support for merchant. It's not because of market lock in either, at least here in Europe they're merely a middle man between my credit card or sepa bank account and the merchant. It's because buyers trust it.
Buyers don't trust stripe. Stripe is for the merchant.
As a buyer I don't trust Paypal. They use dark patterns to try to get me to sign in, then make it hard to sign out, and for whatever reason my account is wedged and even though it has the correct payment details, the payments all fail. The UI is antiquated and the embedded version that has the animated progress bar GIF is sketchy at best. The Venmo app (which Paypal owns) is jammed with crappy ads and an often-broken UI.
The advantage that PayPal offers me as a buyer is a middleman between the vendor and myself that I control. The vendor does not get any of my card or bank info, and if it’s a subscription I can easily cancel it at any time on the PayPal side without having to go through whatever dark patterns the vendor might have to prevent you unsubscribing.
As a buyer, I like something that's good for the merchant, because 99% of the time I'm buying from merchants who I trust way more than I trust the other buyers. Don't even want credit card middlemen if I have the choice.
Nah I thought I liked PayPal as a customer until I found out that they favor large merchants against the consumer. I had a problem with a product and the company was playing games with the warranty. I only had it for 3 months and it was already falling apart. I made a complaint with PP and it was auto denied.
I will never use PP for a large purchase again.
I don't know about recently, but for many years paypal automatically sided with the customer.
We had many customers that would buy a 1 month sub then chargeback the whole amount after using it heavily for a few days, with a nonsense reason like "item not as described" or "unauthorized charge".
Paypal isn't the right place for warranty disputes. They're not in the wrong there.
If you want purchase protection you need to use a card that offers it.
Yep I had a case where I bought something online and it was not as described. The merchant didn't respond to emails, I filed the PayPal chargeback and the case was taking ages as the merchant wasn't responding. They finally responded on the last day to basically say I got my item. Despite all my evidence I provided it didn't seem to matter. So I again would have to respond and now wait for PayPal to rule. I was getting so sick of it, I just filed a chargeback with my credit card company instead and they gave me the money back right away upfront and did their own investigation after the fact and ruled in my favour.
I have had PayPal work for me for refunds many years ago, but the problem is often how long the whole process takes and how long your money is held hostage. By the time you maybe get your money back, you've already had to pay off that money on your credit card (if you used credit for the PP transaction). I've found that when I do a chargeback via my credit card, they often give me the money back right away and then do an investigation. If it were to not go my way the money would get taken back. I think this feels more fair depending on the case. Some cases are pretty clear cut and there is no reason to hold your money hostage while they confirm what you said is truthful.
> ... because buyers trust it.
I did until October 2022, when PayPal published an update to its Acceptable Use Policy that threatened to fine users $2,500 for promoting "misinformation".
Like they were the arbiters of what is misinformation and worthy of economic penalty. While it was later rescinded, it was beyond the pale. It's proof that something is corrupt and completely out to lunch in their management, and I won't sign up again after deleting my account in protest.
Edit: So apparently they only removed the misinformation clause, and they may still seize $2,500 of your money if they alone decide you are guilty of "...the promotion of hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory or the financial exploitation of a crime...". People are worried about authoritarianism, yet meekly cede such powers to a corporation? It boggles the mind.
Yeah, any subscription I can push through PayPal, I do so, because I can cancel it directly on their end. I don't need to go through a ten click justification process with the merchant.
I don't trust either one.
And as a consumer, I especially hate PayPal because they always try to screw me with their currency conversion rates by hiding the toggle button (and it happens that I sometimes forget to toggle over to my bank's currency conversion)
And only once have I ever won a payment dispute there (and that was as a merchant, not a buyer... lol)
Sadly still chained to it for Discogs...