Comment by gabrieledarrigo
8 days ago
Bah.
Personally my take on the entire affair is quite negative, whatever Jarred or Simonw says about it.
I think Bun owned by Anthropic and the entire rewrite with AI is not the real point (even if it's quite interesting, though).
My take is that Jarred, and Bun,didn't demonstrate a serious, adult approach, from "this is my branch, you are overreacting" message to just proceeding with a 1mil+ PR merged in less than month.
The communication is the issue, and it was handled very badly, in a way that impacted trust and divisions.
Was it so difficult to adopt the approach that the TS team adopted for 7.0?
Serious adults?
They are in extremely short supply right now.
It’s a mix of serious-wanna be, quasi religious, quasi-technical people running the show right now.
I am so happy to I got to read about the 90s-2000s tech culture, and experienced the post-2008 startup culture.
Just about 10 years ago people were really serious, but chill-looking. Somehow that got flipped.
Sometimes being unserious is actually very serious. See current US administration.
Mario Zechner's talk "Building Pi in a World of Slop" is a good listen, on the topic of adults in a "world of slop". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjfbvDXpFls
The wig-vs-grok periodic cycle.
I guess the point is none of it matters, CC users didn't notice or don't care except an exceptionally small minority.
The lowest of the bars
But the only one that matters?
Seems like this is delivering business value.
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There was a recent post on here with a Claude Code issue I and others responses to. Specifically, the person from Anthropic who caused the issue replied on HackerNews. In it, he claimed he was the sole contributor and reviewer of the code into production, that he would “do better” in the future. Commenters were confused how a company like Anthropic could allow something like this occur and for an engineer to publicly admit a complete failure and negligence of build processes.
It’s clear seeing your post here a couple days later what’s going on. It’s deliberate. I can only speculate on their reasons why but it seems to be an intentional form of disrespect on the engineering culture. “Your norms, your work, your principles” mean nothing. We can spend money and invalidate your life’s work. We don’t need your consent or support. That’s my personal guess at a surface level.
I don't know, I feel as though Bun went about it much more maturely than zig at any point in the process, from the initial attempted zig compiler commit by the Bun team to the Zig dev team member response to the Bun Rust blog post. Also, I think that fallout over this whole event will definitely favor Bun versus Zig.
It's a weird way to frame the event. Yeah, Andrew (Zig)'s responses were astonishingly immature, but it doesn't matter. Even if Andrew literally ate baby seals for breakfast and kicked puppies as a hobby, it wouldn't make Bun look better. You'd notice that the parent comment didn't even mention zig at all.
Saying Bun's communication was an issue here is clutching pearls. There is no evidence that Bun ever acted in bad faith, Jared definitely seemed to initally think it was just a trial, until he realized that it was actually something feasible. He isn't clairvoyant; there is no way he would have known it was going to be successful when he initially made the post.
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Haha TS7 is the next biggest example of, "Let's just do a line by line port to another language instead of seriously examining our architecture"
This is the correct approach (I dare to say the only correct approach) when porting to another language. You can examining the architecture later.
If you can lock down a test suite that ensures parity, then who cares what shape the lift ultimately looks like.
A full rewrite in different language that fails to be idiomatic is a step backward operationally, even if you stand to gain on issues the new language just eats for free
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Indeed as much I dislike the approach Bun took, at least the port appears to be working. TS7 is going to cause problems for downstream users because Go is the wrong language to use for something that has to run in WASM.
> TS7 is going to cause problems for downstream users because Go is the wrong language to use for something that has to run in WASM.
Is there a huge need to run that typechecking on browsers?
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Didn't WASM got a GC proposal that Go and other managed languages can use it? So it might be an issue in most browsers right now, but soon it might not.
This is the exact reason I stopped using Bun for new projects.
Terrible project governance.
TS 7 is a good example of what a responsible team that cares about their users should have done.
It really does seem like they should have been able to do an incremental rewrite with FFI. Could have easily done it with AI too.
Yes, they probably don't know C ABI.
There's literally nothing stopping anyone from continuing the Zig version if they want to
You mean except the bugs in the zig version and any future CVEs?
I meant continuing to develop it
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Normal users, anti-AI dinosaurs / zig fanatics, and no one else. That's a nice echo chamber you have going there.
"Normal users" haven't even heard of Bun and are still on Node.