Comment by adamtaylor_13
5 hours ago
On a related note, I was just noting to my co-founder, as we struggle to write good case studies for our website, that I find LLMs are astoundingly bad at writing good prose.
We all know the "AI-tics" that give away a sloppily AI-written piece, but even if you steer them, they still struggle to write consistently high-quality prose.
Somehow I feel that the work of a good copywriter has never been more noticeable.
I recently realized this as well and I think what I’ve discovered is that AI just produces mediocre content in all realms, but you don’t really notice it except in the realms where you have real expertise. With a lot of harness and prompting you can have it pump out something that’s pretty good but by default the next best token rarely produces anything of quality it seems like and if you think it does, perhaps you may want to recheck your assumptions on your expertise of the topic at hand
It tends to the mean. You can get it to do that less, but it's an inherent bias
Random observation: Google's Gemma 4 models write so much nicer prose than ChatGPT or Claude.
Though this might be me as a British reader, simply preferring a rather less American turn of phrase.
I reckon the more transatlantic, english-as-international language DeepMind team have had a subliminal (or maybe deliberate) impact on the way it chooses to write.
Or perhaps small open weights models simply aren't under the same commercial pressure to be engaging and sycophantic and are therefore less likely to adopt the samey overly casual, upbeat, Californian sales assistant manner. (Don't get me wrong, I like this from real human Californians just fine!)
Either way, the default tone is much less showy. I would be interested to find out if you agree.
I am very much an LLM cynic. I am engaging because I must, and trying to learn fundamentals, but I would not say I am overly excited by any of this, just glad that small open weights models exist as a counterpoint.
I loathe the way ChatGPT writes, and the Claude-isms that are everywhere; it is actually quite enraging, especially when you start seeing it in internet comments from people who used to try to write out their own thoughts.
But in my experiments with open weights models I have found I am much less aggravated by summaries and outlines written by Gemma 4, so much that I am happy enough to read them, because they have fewer irritants that take me out of the reading flow.
Though this evening it told me very kindly that my photography is a bit "safe". How very dare it… understand me that well.
[flagged]
I’m english, I don’t use Reddit, I write the same way I always have, and go fuck yourself. This is shallow snark and while I have no way of knowing whether it is unworthy of you, I am surely going to assume it isn’t.
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A lot of what would be the top "reference" works aren't even that good either, they were a successful marketing phenomenon or had cultural or social relevance at their time. So, you can get a lot of bad prose going by a number of somewhat logical, externally measurable parameters.
I gave Claude Fable $25 in Pangram API credits and, after hundreds of attempts, it was unable to produce a single readable original piece of writing that was not immediately identified as AI.
This seems to be a hard problem for LLMs, as passing would probably require good self-perception ("oh no, I am writing like an AI!") and fine-grained control over its own output ("let's write like a human instead!").
I wonder if it partially because "write like a human" is kind of a vacuous request. Like, it's the objective everyone including me has been saying that we want, but there's no one way to write like a human and and humans don't even have a good definition past "I know it when I see it."
There's a lot of work in the humanities about different aspects of good writing, but that's not quite the same thing. And anyway they tend to assume a pre-existing level of writing ability. Students are supposed to learn good writing through practice; there are rules and exercises but they're incomplete.
I think as much it is that people write by grappling for the right phrase to represent some inner feeling or concept, writing in part for themselves, whereas LLMs write always and only for an audience.
It’s much easier to understand this once you think about other generative forms. MidJourney never just sits down and draws for fun, so fun never informs its art (only the outward appearance of others’ fun, separate from the fun itself). Suno doesn’t waste hours trying to find riffs on a guitar, so its output is never informed by the direct joy of getting it right. Its music is never optimised for playability on a particular guitar with a scratchy seventh fret and a too-high action. Neither Midjourney nor Suno have evolved their styles due to short-sightedness or carpal tunnel.
If you had a human writer who over a long career only ever wrote articles from an outline given to them by someone else, and you had all the outlines and all the resulting articles from those outlines, and you could train an LLM to generate an article from an outline, it still would not be kicking itself frustrated by an inelegant phrase in a prior article, it would not avoid certain phrases out of a passive aggressive reaction to some editor’s note, it would not ever just rush an article because everyone is gathering at the pub, and it would not choose an analogy just to rub the author of a bitchy critical letter to the editor the wrong way. An LLM could not “subtweet”. It could not write a series of articles hoping one important person will spot that they are auditioning for a job.
Creators have unseen, undocumented influences and motivations that inform their work over a long period. I don’t mean to say that these individual influences can be reliably detected in individual pieces of work. I do mean to say that I think their broad absence tends to be felt in LLM writing. As readers we develop an affinity for writers as much as for their writing, and we do this in part because we deduce things about them.
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I've not really enjoyed finding out lately just how few people seem to notice what ought to be unmissable.
I think it's partly because of where they come from to the problem.
I have education/experience in both literature and coding, I have a pragmatic starting point when approaching text while also being able to recognize stylistic oddities, so I get to be the guy editing out AIsms sometimes.
But I've helped other people copywrite where their environment was all org-speak and academic writing, and AIsms don't really stand out in that case. AI is effectively "doing the right thing" writing the way it does for those tasks. Even tho the right thing is often a bad thing.
those people will also start adopting the AIsm and will become indistinguishable.
AI adopted humanisms, we just weren’t used to seeing them at the same scale we do today.
Diversity of writing styles was part of that, but I’d point to vernacular exposure as the larger component. We’re going to go through a period where we try to adapt to a form of “Universal English” for those of us who read primarily English writing.
Other languages’ readers may be experiencing the same dissonance when they come across AI-generated prose in their native language (but I’ll let others validate /reject my hypothesis).
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More noticeable to me is the lack of the work of a good copy editor which, sadly, we haven't had for a really long time. At least, not on the interwebs. Even the news sites reduced where their print copies were known for rigorous editing saw obvious issues with the various corporate overlords doing serious headcount reductions. The rush to be first to publish reduced even further the time any editors might have had, and then the wide spread use of CMS style articles that slammed output together with something as unintelligent as 'cat segmentFromAuthor1 segmentFromAuthor2 segmentFromAuthor3 > article' where you can tell where each segment started over again with the same basic information as if it was content meant to stand on its own.
Of course, the amount of self published work has also helped make the lack of a good copy editor noticeable. I can excuse self published blogs though. But the stuff released "professionally" has really become farcical.
I can sniff out AI writing immediately but from what I hear AI writing is more popular than ever