Comment by postalcoder
4 days ago
I think the most important thing here is not absolute performance. It's that organizations now have access to a Fable-ish model without Fable's 30-day data retention requirement[0].
> "Consistent with prior Opus models, Opus 5 does not have data retention requirements for general access."[1]
On the Opus model release page, the reason why Fable doesn't have an ARC-AGI score is because of that retention policy[2].
0: https://support.claude.com/en/articles/15425996-data-retenti...
Also the cost per task. It appears to be significantly cheaper, cheaper than sonnet!
The numbers from Anthropic seem heavily cherry-picked, Artificial Analysis has Opus 5 at 1.25x the cost of Sonnet and 2x the cost of GPT 5.6 and K3.
https://artificialanalysis.ai/?cost=cost-per-task
I don't understand how the K3 numbers keep coming out cheap for people. I recently started to add it to my security auditing benchmarks and found it was going to cost about twice as much as Opus 4.8. It blew through the $100 budget I'd set at like 11%. In the tasks I'm doing it seems crazy expensive because it chews so much, burning a tremendous amount of tokens.
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Testing at max effort likely doesn't produce optimal results.
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I can't believe they released the charts they did.
It basically shows that Sol absolutely demolishes Fable at every part of the cost curve for coding for the same level of quality.
Opus is competitive. It just has a higher level of quality / higher cost to start.
Isn't that because Fable/Mythos were tuned for cyber at the expense of general performance?
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If fable costs more to run than the markup they still come out ahead.
I can't help but read these comments in the voice of a TV commercial....
Ask your doctor if Opus 5 is right for you. Side effects include occasional hallucination, security breaches and unwanted React apps. Some developers have reported receiving entire apps from untrained executives who may or may not know what they’re doing.
Stop using Opus immediately if you experience signs of dizziness or vomiting.
Opus 5…the people’s favorite.
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Also the cost per task.
https://www.vals.ai/benchmarks/vals_index
!!! Vals !!!
Vals Index Opus 4.8 > 5.0 goes from $2.90 to $8.54, for 4% gain ... That is a massive cost increase. Sure, 20% cheaper then Fable, but that is a 3x price increase compared to Opus 4.8 in that test.
https://artificialanalysis.ai/models/claude-opus-5 https://artificialanalysis.ai/models/claude-opus-5#price-cos...
!!! artificial analysis !!
Cost per task is second highest, right below Fable.
* Fable: $2.75
* Opus 5.0: $2.03
* Opus 4.8: $1.80
* GPT 5.6 Sol: $1.04
* Kimi K3: $0.95
Looks like interest levels of cherry picked cost in their report. Cheaper model, clearly NOT. More expensive in both benchmarks.
Your numbers are for “max”. Opus 5.0 “max” is $2.03. Opus 5.0 “high” (competitive with Claude 4.8 “max” on that index) is $1.06, less than the $1.80 you are quoting for 4.8 max.
That the most expensive variant is expensive doesn’t really tell us much.
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It's definitely not cheaper than Sonnet on my benchmark, but it's cheaper than Fable and outperforms it. Which is big IMO. https://revise.io/errata-bench
Opus 4.8 was already shown to be cheaper than Sonnet 5 when Sonnet 5 was released (by Anthropic)
So the rumors were right, Opus 5 was indeed being polished up for release. Huge improvements in GDPval-AA v2 too -- great for some of the knowledge work-based agentic workloads I run.
Also glad they still kepy Fable 5 on "credits only" access. I think we're going to start seeing model providers gate top-of-the-line models behind pay-as-you-go API rates/credits while subsidizing other models on monthly subscriptions.
Fable 5 is included for 50% of the limits in Max. Only below Max one has to use credits.
Indeed
It's still available on at least some subs, they emailed me recently notifying me that I still have access.
My understanding is that you get $20 in api credits each month and a one time $100 until mid September. So you can still use the model with a subscription but you aren't getting any kind of discount.
I burned through $45 in 3 prompts to fix some bugs in my code (Some kind of tricky to isolate). That thing burns through cash so fast I don't see myself using it outside of maybe building execution plans for other systems
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I think I saw that Max and Enterprise keep access, but Pro has to use credits, but I think I got $85 in credits.
Does anyone know if Claude Code is on Opus 5 yet? That'd be amazing
I was using it on Cowork yesterday, so I would imagine so. It arrived before I updated but the message says it will work better after updating the app.
When I updated this morning I got claude code v2.1.217. It doesn't have opus 5 listed under /models (opus 4.8 is the latest).
Fable 5 is still included in Max subscriptions!
Max is an individual subscription though and does not come with the guarantees that team or enterprise do?
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It's not that important in most cases, but yes, on the aggregate, it's a concern
It's a binary rule at our firm. We trust bedrock but not mantle for similar reasons
Yes, that's valid, I'm sure it's a dealbraker in some situations.
why not mantle? - I was confused why mantle exists over normal bedrock
And to the guardrails of Fable: https://x.com/cheatyyyy/status/2080693704290140330
That tweet says:
> Opus 5 can silently fallback to Opus 4.8 (without any notice) on the serverside if you hit a guardrail
But https://support.claude.com/en/articles/16049681-why-claude-s... says (emphasis mine):
> These checks cause Claude to _visibly_ fallback from Opus 5 to Opus 4.8 [...] You'll see a notice explaining that the model switched, and the response will be labeled with the model that answered.
So who is right? I know for Fable I am visibly told, is this tweet trying to say it is silent against what Anthropic is saying?
Is some random guy on Twitter right, or official support docs that explicitly describe this scenario?
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So, announcing the fallback is better than doing it silently, but the fact that Fable falls back frequently for the kind of work I do (a lot of security oriented stuff lately, but it falls back on seemingly random stuff, sometimes, too), means I reach for it less. Getting interrupted mid-task makes it much less valuable. If I have any suspicion I'm going to hit the guardrails, I'll use something else.
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It's showing you're switched to 4.8, i just hit that while doing security research.
i wonder if anyone thinks im weird for still using 4.6 lmao it's my "good enough" model. im more than pleased at what i can whip up with 4.6, once local llm's get here with a decent sized context window and it feels like using 4.6, i shall depart the land of these dumb service subscriptions
And that one was funny: https://x.com/i/status/2080697793023483928
Never even registered that that existed, the only thing I care about is whether I keep hitting the &#$&# guardrails that Fable has. They can keep the data forever as far as I'm concerned, just stop kicking me back to Opus.
I don't understand how the data retention works. My company has an enterprise license with no data retention but if I ask Claude about past conversations, it remembers. So surely the information is being stored somewhere
Opus 4.7+ and Fable are both much more aggressive than prior models with respect to writing memories to a location that's effectively quasi-private for them. It's device-local (so passes retention constraint), and you can see it, but only if you go looking for it.
It's a funny design/affordance. I do see them often writing memories of things that that feel unlikely to be important going foward / with other tasks, but I don't see them clearly getting tripped up by them as prior models used to. (eg: Since you're running Ubuntu in Canada, here are some drills you can try to help your kid hit a baseball more consistently.)
Another silent inflation of token count. There's no force on earth that can overcome that incentive for the labs.
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You most likely are referring to the local jsonl files where claude has your sessions etc stored.
It could just be the memory features.
In my enterprise-seated account I see slightly different options available (vs. my personal account) in the Capabilities section:
The first option was defaulted to on, if I recall.
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Claude Code? It stores a memory.md file.
Likely in memory files stored locally
I'm talking about the website. It's not local because I can see my chats in any device
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insane pricing:
" Claude Opus 5 is available today on all platforms, priced at $5 per million input tokens and $25 per million output tokens (the same as Opus 4.8)"
"insane" that they kept the price the same and didn't jack it up, my bad for the ambiguity.
Why is it insane if it's the same as the previous version?
I think for the value of the outputs that’s still a good deal. Keeping the same price as the prior model makes sense to me. That is if the model size is about the same in the cost to serve has not substantially changed. Now I would have expected efficiency gains for inference, but there is no way to know as a customer.
At the end of the day, they have established a strong brand and if they can get away with a 95%+ gross margin on inference entirely from the status premium, then I suppose that’s good for them. Apple does the same thing, and I don’t fault them for it.
> Updated over 2 weeks ago
I hope we get clarification on this, I can't find anything claiming that it is compatible with ZDR.
Maybe I’m misunderstanding you, but if you scroll to the bottom of their [1] link to the Opus 5 announcement, under “Getting started,” it explicitly says:
> Consistent with prior Opus models, Opus 5 does not have data retention requirements for general access.
It's in the article.
do you mean, that organizations now have access to Fable-ish pelican drawing?
at last. time to lay off 22,000 employees
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Anthropic offered ZDR for Fable on AWS bedrock from the beginning.
Really? I was unable to use it in our account without having to enable the provider_data_share setting...
From the docs[0]:
> To use this model, you must opt in to provider data sharing by setting your data retention mode to provider_data_share via the Data Retention API
0: https://docs.aws.amazon.com/bedrock/latest/userguide/model-c...
Yes. You need ZDR at the account level first. Contact your AWS rep.
I have done this a few times for customer deployments.