Comment by blagie
2 days ago
> Unless of course you are actually pro-Russian and you're just playing this game at a higher level in which case... congrats because that is effective
I seriously thought this was the case, but looking at the post history, it's probably a question of Hanlon's Razor.
Poster appears to be Ukrainian, and clueless.
Russian trolls feed on these types, unfortunately, and they end up polarized quickly enough.
That's the amplification in these disinformation wars.
I admire anyone who has the energy to fight on the informational front, but I think that's mostly pointless. People who haven't decided on their stance in this war are a minority.
We have IMO, an informational stalemate, with russians having much better positions, unfortunately, thanks to their network of agents covering entire planet, and huge investments over the last two decades (and even before that: the entire Bandera horror-story is their work from soviet times, because Bandera been fighting russian soviet colonizers).
Those a bit smarter have figured that you can not trust a single word coming from russians. Their methods have been studied, described, and presented.
Those who keep repeating russian propaganda, will continue doing so until russia is defeated militarily (and I'm not saying that's gonna happen soon, or even during my lifetime, those folks in EU better prepare).
You seem to be a product of Russian propaganda.
My advice would be to read a non-Ukranian history book.
What Russia seems to be doing is trying to split Ukraine from the West. It's not true that "russians having much better positions, unfortunately, thanks to their network of agents covering entire planet." They don't have that scale. They do seem effective propaganda in Ukraine and in Poland.
Right now, it seems to be working. Russian propaganda leads to Ukrainians are acting like dicks, and international reactions to Ukrainians. Literally, all they need to do is this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE3j_RHkqJc
That's what they're doing, and it's working.
US split off a year ago. EU is turning away. Polish support went from wholehearted, to holding their noses and helping. That's not a result of false information elsewhere, but within Ukraine. Ukrainians -- including politicians who ought to know better -- walk around talking nonsense which fully supports the Russian propaganda.
Right now, you're helping Russia win.
Proper history: Bandera absolutely fought for Ukrainian freedom and independence. He absolutely committed murders, terrorism, and atrocities to do so. Some of those were targeted at Poland, who now took in over a million of your refugees, and put itself at risk to give massive military support. Volhynia was 100,000 Poles killed -- about 0.5% of the Polish population at the time. Many of those were woman and children, and few had anything to do with destruction of churches or whatnot. You're glorifying him, while asking children of his victims for aid.
(As a footnote: No one cares if this were 10,000 or a million. Telling Poles it's 200,000 and Ukrainians that it's 40,000 is exactly a way of driving a divisive wedge on what's a non-issue at this point; everyone agrees it was a metric fuckload)
People like you are not much different than Southern Americans, who talk about the civil war about state rights, omitting slavery, or Germans who talk about post-WWI reparations, without mentioning the holocaust. Yes, WWI reparations were devastating to Germany. No, that didn't merit genocide.
Right now, the important problem is to get Russia out, get Crimea back, etc. For that, you need allies. Swallow your fucking pride, and learn proper history. Every nation that has had one of these events has to go through it, or else they fracture, like America did racially.
Russia's goals of keeping Ukraine out of the EU and NATO? All they needed to do is rile up a few folks like you with nationalist disinformation. Boom. Ukraine did for Russia what they couldn't accomplish with weapons.
This isn't hard to solve. But it requires swallowing pride, and coming to terms with a rather more complex history than presented in Ukrainian nationalist curricula.