EU chip industry: best I can do is supply chips that are in 99% of industrial equipment and vehicles. Also supply the only machines in the world that enable leading edge lithography processes.
No comment on the second part, but the first part is wrong. EU doesn't have a moat in process technology anymore (since 2010s). They have a bunch of legacy fabs, like 350, 180 and 130 nm but Taiwan, US, and China (and others like Israel, or Singapore) have these too. EU is severely lacking behind chip design, production and packaging capabilities for industrial, automotive, and space kind of niche applications since the heavy divestment from semiconductors after 2008 financial crisis and 2015 Euro crisis.
On top of this, once European giants like NXP (formerly Philips semiconductors), Infineon (formerly Siemens semiconductors), and ST are actively reducing their footprint in Europe and moving to India or SE Asia.
In short: No, EU has no future in those markets as designer or producer of chips.
This is actually at the core of our (EU) problem. Instead of thinking, "here is this new technology, how can we build new markets/products out of it", our industry leaders always think, "here is this new technology, how can we apply it to our existing industries".
You can see it a lot in AI, right now. AI4industry is not where the gains are right now. We should be competing on training foundational models. Once the foundational models from US/China are strong enough, they will do AI4industry and we wouldn't have any edge on them anyway because their tech is more vertically integrated and they have better insight in how AI works under the hood.
There's no moat to AI models so it doesn't really matter who develops it first. If AGI happens none of it matters since it won't be controlled anyway. If there's an exponential wall then everyone will be at it within 12 months of the first person hitting it and then it's better not to have spent the cash pioneering the path.
The long-term idea that the we have to compete claim is based on is like AGI and it's gonna really care what Elon tells it to do. This is a dumb idea regardless of how it fails.
AI models are seeming the ultimate in fungible commodities at this point, why spend on R&D?
EU: Perhaps we should also spend a few billion on attracting american glue manufacturers so they open a factory and a half here so we can catch up in this chip making business.
EU: Our people generally live longer and happier lives plus our countries are some of the safest on Earth. Better throw that all away and follow the Americans into hell so our elites can make slightly more money!
CXMT uses old Qimonda patents (even though Qimonda's tech is now outdated), and the former CEO of Qimonda is currently building a fab for an FeRAM-based alternative to DRAM in Magdeburg. It's a gamble as FeRAM still suffers from a more limited lifetime than conventional DRAM at this moment but I think there are still somewhat interesting developments happening in Europe.
To be fair, all high end chips are made in Asia with EU tooling. US happens to be the place where the managers are and the trade is facilitated. There has been some good progress to push Asia make cips in USA with EU machines however IIRC significant part of the chain is still in Asia and chips made in USA are shipped to Asia for further processing.
Edit: changed China with Asia to distance the comment from Taiwan-China based politics.
AFAIK the high end chips are made in Taiwan, that's not the same. Also there was an export control, so ASML couldn't sell the latest equipment to China.
> To be fair, all high end chips are made in China with EU tooling.
Did you mean Taiwan? Because depending on who you ask that is, or is not china.
The Chinese have been cut off from EU tooling for a while now. And their attempts to build out their own lithography setups have been a failure. Their 7nm process is, by all measures, not delivering the yields that one would need to make it really successful.
In relative terms there is no innovation happening outside of that and some other smaller companies providing highly specialized components that are a part of the supply chain.
There isn’t just much if anything to brag about. ASML is great but it’s effectively a monopoly (for the time being) due to a large extent some correct historical choices.
Based on the empirical evidence we have ASML succeeded in spite of the EU not because of it (so “they” is bot exactly fair). There is not much EU has going on besides that when it comes to growth and innovation.
It’s a bit like Novo Nordisk, they had a huge win and then just focused on making as much money while it lasted while more innovative companies ate up their market.
EU chip industry: best I can do is supply chips that are in 99% of industrial equipment and vehicles. Also supply the only machines in the world that enable leading edge lithography processes.
No comment on the second part, but the first part is wrong. EU doesn't have a moat in process technology anymore (since 2010s). They have a bunch of legacy fabs, like 350, 180 and 130 nm but Taiwan, US, and China (and others like Israel, or Singapore) have these too. EU is severely lacking behind chip design, production and packaging capabilities for industrial, automotive, and space kind of niche applications since the heavy divestment from semiconductors after 2008 financial crisis and 2015 Euro crisis.
On top of this, once European giants like NXP (formerly Philips semiconductors), Infineon (formerly Siemens semiconductors), and ST are actively reducing their footprint in Europe and moving to India or SE Asia.
In short: No, EU has no future in those markets as designer or producer of chips.
[Redacted]
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This is actually at the core of our (EU) problem. Instead of thinking, "here is this new technology, how can we build new markets/products out of it", our industry leaders always think, "here is this new technology, how can we apply it to our existing industries".
You can see it a lot in AI, right now. AI4industry is not where the gains are right now. We should be competing on training foundational models. Once the foundational models from US/China are strong enough, they will do AI4industry and we wouldn't have any edge on them anyway because their tech is more vertically integrated and they have better insight in how AI works under the hood.
There's no moat to AI models so it doesn't really matter who develops it first. If AGI happens none of it matters since it won't be controlled anyway. If there's an exponential wall then everyone will be at it within 12 months of the first person hitting it and then it's better not to have spent the cash pioneering the path.
The long-term idea that the we have to compete claim is based on is like AGI and it's gonna really care what Elon tells it to do. This is a dumb idea regardless of how it fails.
AI models are seeming the ultimate in fungible commodities at this point, why spend on R&D?
1 reply →
EU: we should create a law regulating the viscosity of the glue being eaten
EU: Perhaps we should also spend a few billion on attracting american glue manufacturers so they open a factory and a half here so we can catch up in this chip making business.
EU: Our people generally live longer and happier lives plus our countries are some of the safest on Earth. Better throw that all away and follow the Americans into hell so our elites can make slightly more money!
CXMT uses old Qimonda patents (even though Qimonda's tech is now outdated), and the former CEO of Qimonda is currently building a fab for an FeRAM-based alternative to DRAM in Magdeburg. It's a gamble as FeRAM still suffers from a more limited lifetime than conventional DRAM at this moment but I think there are still somewhat interesting developments happening in Europe.
To be fair, all high end chips are made in Asia with EU tooling. US happens to be the place where the managers are and the trade is facilitated. There has been some good progress to push Asia make cips in USA with EU machines however IIRC significant part of the chain is still in Asia and chips made in USA are shipped to Asia for further processing.
Edit: changed China with Asia to distance the comment from Taiwan-China based politics.
> US happens to be the place where the managers
And you know.. the actual design for plenty of these chips. By that definition Apple is also an Asian company..
> with EU tooling
That is only a (vital) part of the supply chain, there are plenty of other components.
IMHO the moral of the story is that no one particular makes the chips, humanity does it collectively.
AFAIK the high end chips are made in Taiwan, that's not the same. Also there was an export control, so ASML couldn't sell the latest equipment to China.
Officially, according to USA, Taiwan is China but this is pedantic. Let's call it Asia instead of going into China-Taiwan politics
> To be fair, all high end chips are made in China with EU tooling.
Did you mean Taiwan? Because depending on who you ask that is, or is not china.
The Chinese have been cut off from EU tooling for a while now. And their attempts to build out their own lithography setups have been a failure. Their 7nm process is, by all measures, not delivering the yields that one would need to make it really successful.
No I don't mean anything related to politics of China-Taiwan. I have no interest in that.
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Don't make me tap the sign that says "ASML".
Difference between Europe and the others is that it doesn't brag nearly as much.
Even the EU thought the “EU Chips Act” was a failure which is why they are trying to re-invent it after spending billions https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/apr/28/eu-microchi...
I don’t think the goal there was to sit around praising past accomplishments. You always have to keep building.
And that’s about it..
In relative terms there is no innovation happening outside of that and some other smaller companies providing highly specialized components that are a part of the supply chain.
There isn’t just much if anything to brag about. ASML is great but it’s effectively a monopoly (for the time being) due to a large extent some correct historical choices.
ASML doesn't make chips.
Nobody makes state of the art chips without ASML
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EU chip industry: best I can do is power electronics.
EU Chip industry : ASML, 2nd to only nvidia, 0.5T mkt cap
They sell the shovels, we need someone actually digging for gold.
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STMicroelectronics cries in a corner.
HN continues its transmogrification in X.
Yeah the audience here has significantly shifted.
EU bourgeoisie invests in US tech
You're forgetting about ASML, which is European and makes the actual machines to produce a huge portion of the world's high-end chips.
> EU chip industry: best I can do is eat glue in the corner.
Aren't they the only ones able to supply the chip-making machines?
Based on the empirical evidence we have ASML succeeded in spite of the EU not because of it (so “they” is bot exactly fair). There is not much EU has going on besides that when it comes to growth and innovation.
It’s a bit like Novo Nordisk, they had a huge win and then just focused on making as much money while it lasted while more innovative companies ate up their market.
Oh Jon
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EU: More windmills!