Comment by maxdo

3 hours ago

I'm so tired of this shallow analysis claiming vendors are losing tons of money on subscriptions. How do you even judge that?

Users go on vacation, they slack off, they spend the day talking to each other. There are very few people who are really effective at burning tokens. how do you know the ratio? do you have insides? No :)

The biggest target is enterprise, and the economics for an LLM vendor look like this: price per token = R&D + inference + infra investments. When you buy a subscription, you are quite often buying a year ahead. That lets the vendor predict future infra investments against hard commitments, and sell expensive per token pricing to everyone else. And when a hard commitment sits unused because the user is busy, they sell it twice. It is loyalty in exchange for predictability, in exchange for the promise to always deliver SOTA to users.

Vendors control the harness. Tomorrow they simply roll out a router where reading the code and doing the final edits goes to a cheaper model, and their math suddenly becomes very sexy.

Isn't that hard to predict that their economic model is very easy to tune? and this is just first baby steps.

I personally pay per token ( do not have subs for work ). I did have once a $25k/mo worth of tokens, since i knew it was free so i was doing crazy experiments. Now , 2 month later, my bill was barely $1.5k since i moved into different stage with project. I do have team members who burn $500-600. pre router, pre optimization.

I switched recently to grok 4.5 and cursor router and my bill will go even further down. It rotates 4-5 different vendor models cheap and expensive too, depends on the task. Routers will flip entire LLM economy upside down.

It's fascinating that you simultaneously argue that margins will expand... while posting about personal behavior all of which points toward commoditization and intense price competition.

  • What’s wrong here ? You push the router , you keep same subscription price , customers are as happy or even more happy because router will make process faster, the costs will go down . The market size will increase several times .

    If you have properties of the market where your costs will go down , the size of the market will increase and you are top contender. How is that a bubble or a bad market ?

    Sure you have risks of underperforming and lose the competition, but how is that different from any business in the world ?

I think Ed's argument is that given the infra investment the revenue won't be enough to pay back the original investors. In fact cheaper models make this worse for them. Who cares about the investors? Well it turns out the infra was financed in large part by debt that was securitized and a bunch of regarded investors that bought the debt looking for higher returns will be taking a huge haircut when the bubble pops. The amount of securitized debt is roughly the same as the mortgage backed securities back on 2007, ergo the prediction is a big recession.

What's unclear to me is if this is a systemic issue that's going to cause credit to freeze up but imo the opacity of the shadow banking "system" does not help here. If you see one cockroach, etc.

  • Agents will explode the use 100x or more , so even if you push into your router mix models that dynamically do inference that is 100x 10x 5x cheaper , they are still fine.

    In fact spacex story tells you next : investments in infrastructure is the best investment. If OpenAI or anthropic have committed infra in the worst case scenario they can re-sell it with margin .

    The only way it will not payout suddenly we wake up in the world where ai fails to deliver . Which does not seems to be the case .