Comment by tombert
7 hours ago
I have always hated coffee so I've previously had some kind of energy drink in the morning for weeks at a time.
Those suckers are bizarrely addictive. It's one thing to have one shortly after you wake up, but I found myself craving them later and later in the day, and of course that makes it harder to sleep...which makes me more likely to have energy drinks the next day.
I stopped the daily consumption when I realized I was having around 800mg of caffeine a day, which couldn't possibly be good for me. I quit energy drinks cold turkey and just did Diet Coke, which I cut off at 2pm; even with that weening off I still got headaches and felt miserable for three days.
I will still occasionally consume an energy drink if I'm traveling and I need to wake up super early, but thankfully these are very outlier events.
You're describing caffeine addiction. This also happens with coffee.
People at the office sometimes ask me how I manage to get up in the morning and be in a good mood without having a cup of coffee. I suspect that most of them are only in a bad mood after waking up because they have mild caffeine widthrawal.
Feeling miserable for three days seems ... unlikely after 800mg/day of caffeine. I say that to mean, it should be much longer (been there, done that, took many months) Caffeine use especially at that level massively grows the amount adenosine receptors your brain has, and they don't just disappear overnight.
A 500ml Diet Coke (assuming you don't mean the caffeine free version) also contains about 65 mg of caffeine, which is the same as an espresso. I'm not sure if you really quit. Caffeine is also in a surprisingly large amount of soft drinks you wouldn't expect.
Everybody's physiology is different, but I drank a full pot of coffee every day, for about 15 years.
After Getting Older™, I was noticing more and more effects that I didn't like, so I made the decision to (mostly) detox off caffeine using decaf beans. Cold turkey would have destroyed me. I went with the following schedule:
* Week 1: 75% caffeinated/25% decaf beans
* Week 2: 50% caf/50% decaf
* Week 3: 25% caf/75% decaf
* Week 4: 100% decaf
At week 4, I entered a full failure mode I hadn't yet experienced, namely migraines that were untouchable by OTC medications. Only caffeine helped. I tried to get through the week to "be done" with the weening but couldn't. So...
* Week 5: back up to 25% caf/75% decaf!
* Weeks 6-12: decreasing caffeine by half each week (to the point I was measuring beans using my home scale).
After week 12, I was able to go without caffeine, and now I drink 1 cup of coffee and, if I'm feeling wild, I'll occasionally get an espresso.
My physiological dependence on caffeine was no joke, but I feel a heck of a lot less anxious and jittery after cutting it down to where I'm now at.
Seems like this would have been much easier if you used plain old caffeine pills at the denominations you wanted to work thru, easier to measure (split the tablets) and also removes the other pleasurable aspects like flavor of the coffee and pleasing aromas—those kind of subjective cues that compound the preference and addiction
Isnt what you're doing now basically—what it would be called for almost any other drug—"kindling" or something?
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> now I drink 1 cup of coffee and, if I'm feeling wild, I'll occasionally get an espresso.
FYI, unless we're talking double espresso, a typical shot of espresso contains less caffeine (up to half) than a typical cup of drip coffee.
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For about 8 years now I've been down to one caffeinated coffee per day, first thing in the morning. If I miss it, I have the start of a migraine by about 1pm. It's mad.
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Did you try Excedrin? It has some caffeine in it.
It does seem to be especially helpful relative to just Tylenol for me as a migraine sufferer. Specifically for helping to disperse the aura.
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My goal wasn't to completely quit. The goal was to keep my caffeine intake less than or equal to 400mg (the FDA's recommended max) and to cut it off at 2pm. I didn't cold-turkey cut off caffeine.
I stopped getting acute headaches after about three days; other prolonged side effects are harder to quantify.
I should also clarify, it wasn't 800mg every day (which I realize I didn't make clear), it was just one thing where I saw that at least a few days of the last week I had consumed 800mg.
Right now I think 800 mg/d of caffeine would send me to the ER lol. Discontinuing 800mg/d steady state, cold turkey... that would mean 3 weeks of migraine-like headaches
I couldn't even get away from 2 cups/day until i started hyperbolic tapering by slowly mixing decaf into my regular beans.
Consuming that much caffeine is terrible for your heart.
If you find yourself consuming a lot of caffeine regularly, you would probably be much better served by Adderall. You can get the same stimulant effect with much less wear and tear on your body. If you want to put it to the test without breaking the law or going through the hassle of getting a prescription, you can try taking 1 or 2 Sudafed (the real stuff that requires ID), which I've found to be functionally equivalent to a low dose of Adderall.
(The normal caveats about health risks of stimulants apply to this comment - avoid if you have a heart condition, etc.)
I agree it's not good for my heart. I keep my caffeine intake considerably lower now, always less than the 400mg max that the FDA recommends, usually less than that.
I'm not sure that adderrall is significantly healthier for the heart. I did take it for a bit but I found adderral to be unbelievably terrible. I would take a small dose at like 7am, and I still would have trouble getting to sleep at night, and when I did get sleep it didn't feel terribly restful. I was only on it for about a week and that was enough.
Obviously if it works for you, don't let me take that away from you.
Why do you expect pseudoephedrine to be less nasty on the cardiovascular system than caffeine?
Recommending going from caffeine to amphetamine comes across as rather weird to me. 'It seems you have trouble regulating intake of a weak stimulant most people have little issue with, how about you take one of the strong, seriously treacherous ones instead?'
coke etc will destroy your teeth, if not cleaned off regularly.
( don't "ask me how i know" ! )
> if not cleaned off regularly.
Just rinse it off with water?
It's an acid, which softens your enamel. You should ideally rinse with something that remineralizes the enamel, i.e. flouride.
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I swore off energy drinks in high school after someone brought a case of them on the bus to a football game and I drank one and got horrible diarrhea and had to shit in the woods at halftime.
dude, don't even get me started on those bang energy drinks. I don't know what they put in them but monsters do not make me run to the bathroom like those things do. it might be a caffeine threshold thing I don't know. monsters have about 180 mg of caffeine bang drinks have I think 300 mg.
the bang drinks even used to have creatine in them which would actually make you sick if you didn't have anything to eat around the time you drank it. they have reformulated. so wouldn't it surprise me if the bang people were putting some weird stuff in there that was basically acting as a laxative. I have no idea.
I like energy drinks, but I prefer coffee. I drink my coffee black. About the only time I drink an energy drink for these past few years is when driving long distances. I don't like the chemicals used in sugar free sodas/energy drinks, and I don't like consuming a lot of unnecessary sugar, I also really like the flavor of properly prepared coffee. I go through phases, but I generally just have 1-2 cups in the morning and that's it, but when I'm driving I might have 3-5 energy drinks over the course of 8-10 hours of driving. I understand the appeal, but it's just never hooked me the way people talk about them.
I mean, you could say the same thing about coffee.
Probably. As I said, I've always hated coffee so I've never really had any desire to consume large quantities of it, so I can't speak to that.
I will say, though, energy drinks do become a relatively expensive addiction. A Monster energy drink can easily cost 3-4 dollars, so if I had three of those a day we are talking $10+ of cost. If you get off brands they're cheaper, but even still I think they're overpriced.
I know it's a meme that people pay like $6 for a coffee at Starbucks, but I think if you buy the coffee beans yourself or instant coffee it's relatively cheap.
$3-4 is a lot. They are 0.99 € here (tax included).
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Drip coffee has ~40-50% more caffeine per 8oz serving than Red Bull (about 90-100mg vs 65mg). The nice thing about coffee is that the mouth-puckering tannins make it harder to absolutely pound them, like one can do easily with cans of Red Bull.
A 12 oz can of Celsius has 200mg of caffeine.
Yeah, the real problem with Red Bull is that it's caffeine-spiked Gatorade. So you're drinking to satisfy cravings but also just because you're thirsty.
As a coffee drinker the "bizarrely addictive" comment does not resonate with me at all.
I don't really have trouble keeping myself to, like, 1.2 coffees a day. I can't imagine drinking 6-7 coffees in a day to get to 800 mg caffeine.
Unless you add ice or sweetener it's bitter and hot, so it's a lot harder to slide down the slippery slope of just drinking it whenever you're thirsty and simultaneously getting addicted to the caffeine and the sugar. To say nothing of whatever else is in the energy drinks.
Although I guess plenty of people who drive a lot do this with the sugary Starbucks drinks in the giant mugs.
I don't particularly like coffee, so it's not addictive for me as well. But neither are the energy drinks that I actually like. Conversely, there are people heavily addicted to coffee, whether you want to call that "bizzarely" or not.
So, we can haggle over details, but overall I don't see a dramatic qualitative difference.
You could but you'd be quite disingenuous if you did considering that coffee delivers caffeine without a bunch of added sugar.
Sugar free/low sugar energy drinks are really common, and most coffee drinkers I know are mixing in sugar or creamer or something in their coffee, so I don't think they're that different. Personally, as someone who is super sensitive to bitterness, coffee has never worked for me, so if I need a caffeine boost, I go for a sugar free Red Bull or a white Monster
I was drinking the sugar free energy drinks, so I wasn't getting a ton of sugar.
Still not saying it's healthy but it wasn't because of too much sugar.
Sugar-free energy drinks aren’t rare (at least here in Europe), and people are putting fat and sugar in their coffee as well.