Comment by radlad
2 months ago
"The definition"? Whose? There are many definitions of "operating system" and I think it may be you who has it wrong: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_system#Definition_an...
Having a kernel, drivers, or firmware does not disqualify an operating system focused on LLM-usage from being an "agent operating system."
Do you agree that Android is an OS, or would you say that the OS is Linux and Android is simply a distribution? Is the operating system "Windows 11" or is it Windows NT kernel? Is UEFI an OS? ChromeOS? Language isn't always black-and-white.
You seemed to miss the cloud computing point: are you running one OS, or two? Does one OS running on top of another OS with virtualized hardware count? If yes, then why do you think an agent OS is incompatible with a traditional OS?
> An operating system is not just something that opens apps, it is the thing that lets you type, use a mouse, and see things on a screen. LLMs cannot do any of that, they are an app which runs on an OS.
An OS is all of these things. I never once claimed that an agent operating system would have a kernel which "is" an LLM. This is an absurd interpretation.
No, I disagree with everything you are saying here. You have a very misguided opinion of what an OS is.
You linked the wikipedia page which clearly says OSes are defined by managing resources and have an always running kernel. LLMs do not meet either of these points.
> You seemed to miss the cloud computing point
You seem to misunderstand how VMs work. They are not OSes running on top of OSes, they are multiple OSes sharing the same hardware resources simultaneously side by side.
You also seem to keep avoiding the fact you wrote:
> it's the way I access my LLM. For now.
Inferring that you think soon LLMs will either not need operating systems, or will become them. This is not true at all. LLMs will never boot your hardware into a prompt. The OS will do that and hand off to the LLM. This is the main reason you are getting backlash and being downvoted.
Are we reading the same Wikipedia page?
> An operating system is difficult to define,[7] but has been called "the layer of software that manages a computer's resources for its users and their applications".[8] Operating systems include the software that is always running, called a kernel—but can include other software as well.[7][9] The two other types of programs that can run on a computer are system programs—which are associated with the operating system, but may not be part of the kernel—and applications—all other software.[9]
> You seem to misunderstand how VMs work. They are not OSes running on top of OSes, they are multiple OSes sharing the same hardware resources simultaneously side by side.
This is not strictly true. VirtualBox, VMware Workstation, QEMU run guests on the host. Even KVM operates in tandem with the host kernel. Maybe you're referring to Xen and ESXi VMs?
> Inferring that you think soon LLMs will either not need operating systems, or will become them.
You removed the key point of context:
> I almost do not need a traditional OS anymore. [...] it's the way I access my LLM. For now.
I believe we will move to something that resembles microkernels and/or thin clients. You'll still have something here, but it'll be about as impactful as BIOS is.
> This is the main reason you are getting backlash and being downvoted.
FWIW, I've received a single downvote.
Yes we are reading the same page, except you seem to be cherry picking comments and missing the main broader picture:
There are three main purposes that an operating system fulfills:
Operating systems allocate resources between different applications, deciding when they will receive central processing unit (CPU) time or space in memory.
Operating systems provide an interface that abstracts the details of hardware access
Operating systems provide common services, such as an interface for accessing network and disk devices.
LLMs will can not and will not ever do these things, and your idea that an OS will become a tiny thing like a BIOS is completely wrong.
If these things were true, an OS wouldnt need a BIOS by now, they would have merged into the same thing long ago. But they havent because they are distinct layers which require certain functionality performed before handing off to the next layer. This is why an LLM will never be an OS, and will always be an app that an OS hands off to.
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