Comment by ceejayoz
3 days ago
> So your solution is to ban the sale of any kind of knife.
If you give a toddler a butcher's knife to play with and they get hurt, you'll likely get in trouble for child endangerment.
Using my car requires it be registered, pass my state's safety standards, and that I possess a valid license and follow a wide variety of rules.
Maybe a certain level of protection is, at times, acceptable?
Those are very different scenarios because your "protection" is the threat of consequences. You can freely buy and use knives, you can drive your own car, but you can only use your phone to do what Apple approves of? Sure, banning knives, replacing cars with public transport, and locking down all computers should be safer in theory... but murderers will still murder and scammers will still scam.
Social engineering is the weakest link even if your grandma is doing all her banking on Windows XP.
> You can freely buy and use knives…
No, not necessarily. Quite a few countries have restrictions on knives, including some parts of the US - a switchblade will get you in trouble in NYC.
> you can drive your own car
Only in approved ways!
Hell, you'll get in trouble if your gasoline is the wrong color.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_dye#Fuel_dye_in_North_Ame...
"Detection of red-dyed fuel in the fuel system of an on-road vehicle will incur substantial penalties."
> murderers will still murder and scammers will still scam
Do we not take steps to try and reduce murder?
> Hell, you'll get in trouble if your gasoline is the wrong color.
You've missed my point even though it's right in front of you. You won't get in trouble for using your Apple device in non-approved ways because it doesn't let you. Would you ban cars for everyone because it's not safe for grandma to drive anymore? Probably not - so why lock down devices for everyone?
> Do we not take steps to try and reduce murder?
Not directly? Gun/knife control probably helps but people willing to risk the consequences of murder are not going to care about breaking more laws to get illegal weapons. Or just use a weapon that's easy to get.
2 replies →
When did Apple hold a gun to your head and make you buy an iPhone?
They didn't, and I don't have one, but it's looking like Android phones are going to be locked down in the future too. Everything else will slowly lose compatibility with the apps you need.
> If you give a toddler a butcher's knife to play with and they get hurt, you'll likely get in trouble for child endangerment.
Right but granny is not a child, she is kind of the opposite of a child.
You're essentially saying we should child proof the entire world, right. Appeal to the lowest common denominator and DO NOT offer back doors. But that's a plainly ridiculous notion and everyone knows it. This argument only works on smartphones right now because it's the status-quo. As soon as you extend it to literally any other domain, it immediately crumbles and falls between your fingers.
Yes, there IS a certain level of protection that is acceptable at all times. But that level is absolutely not "maximum protection, no other options sorry". Which is what Apple is trying to do. This really is "no sale of knives" type stuff. That sounds ridiculous, right? Because it is, and we let Apple get away with murder.
> Right but granny is not a child, she is kind of the opposite of a child.
The failure modes are often quite similar - cognitive/motor issues and lack of experience with the tools offered.
> Appeal to the lowest common denominator and DO NOT offer back doors.
Back doors accessible by scammers are bad for the same reasons back doors accessible by governments are.
> This really is "no sale of knives" type stuff. That sounds ridiculous, right? Because it is, and we let Apple get away with murder.
Apple's more like a shop that declines to sell knives. There are other shops that will sell you one.
> The failure modes are often quite similar - cognitive/motor issues and lack of experience with the tools offered.
Okay but again we cannot form all technology to only work for people with cognitive issues and nobody else. Again, this is ridiculous, there's no other way to describe it. It's just not a reasonable viewpoint and I feel it's a bit insane I even have to argue against it.
Look, it's great if we have the option to lock these phones down for more vulnerable people. What we CANNOT do is make the entire world locked down. It's not reasonable.
> Back doors accessible by scammers are bad for the same reasons back doors accessible by governments are.
My mistake, these are front doors. Not back doors.
> Apple's more like a shop that declines to sell knives. There are other shops that will sell you one.
NO, there are not, because Apple chooses to only allow their app store. The market we are talking about here is not "all smartphones". It's "the market of software available for iPhones", in which they hold 100% control over. This should be legislated against.
3 replies →
> The failure modes are often quite similar - cognitive/motor issues and lack of experience with the tools offered.
Children are either not allowed to have devices, or they have them but locked down with parental controls (hopefully).
Apple could easily have a separate mode for this. Maybe there's some overlap with lockdown mode where it can be bundled together. There is no reason to force it on everyone except to benefit Apple.
3 replies →