Comment by mdasen
17 hours ago
Yes, there are trade-offs, but you can get really great tires on all three. The Michelin CrossClimate2 tires are arguably the best traction tires, Consumer Reports estimates 95,000 miles of tread life in their testing (higher than basically anything else), and they got a 4/5 for rolling resistance on Consumer Reports' dynamometer testing.
There's a lot of tires that are poorly made and just bad tires. For example, one tire got 2/5 for rolling resistance, tested to 55,000 miles for tread, and 2/5 and 3/5 ratings for the traction categories like wet braking, snow traction, ice braking.
I'm not arguing that there aren't trade-offs, but tire companies have been working to make better tires that minimize the trade-offs and produce better tires on all three.
> The rule is “designed to ensure that replacement tires sold in the state are at least as energy efficient, on average, as tires sold in the state as original equipment.”
It sounds like the rule isn't exactly that strict. This (combined with the fact that all season tires aren't covered) presents a very low bar. But there are tires that are just garbage - they're bad at all three. It doesn't sound like this rule would impact good tires that have very long tread life and amazing traction. It sounds like it'd impact the tires that are a pile of garbage.
There's a difference between a tire that trades off a small portion of rolling resistance for traction and tire wear and tires that are poorly made and are trading off a huge amount of one or two of those categories because they're just bad tires.
It's worth pointing out the CrossClimate2 tires are all-seasons and exempt from the requirement. The 4/5 is specific to Consumer Reports all-season category - actual efficiency is going to be noticeably lower than the high efficiency tires they are talking about in the article.
But you're not wrong in general. There are a lot of garbage tires. And that's not even considering the intentionally "bad" tires like the knobby off-road treads that also have the side effect of massively increasing road noise and reducing engine life.
But like a lot of the California rules, they have carved out so many exceptions and have no real enforcement mechanism (the worst offending tires are being imported directly from China). So the reality is that there is not going to be a lot of juice for the squeeze.
You just need social stigma on bad tires. It's the single most important thing on your vehicle, for literally all the reasons out there.
Right after we have a social stigma for people that keep voting to have the government involved in every bit of their lives.
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I've tried social stigma on lack-of-using-turn-signals, and have been about as disappointed as you are likely to be hah.
We can’t successfully shame each other to avoid Hot Pockets and big brands of cereal that acutely poison our kids.
You think people are going to tread-peek?!
I agree with you, but we’re both going to be disappointed.
> The Michelin CrossClimate2 tires are arguably the best traction tires,
In their class, but not in general.
They are all-season tires. They don't perform as well as winter tires in the winter, and they don't perform as well as summer tires in the summer.
They're also a terribly mushy tire. They feel like you're floating around on the road and wallowing through the turns. This doesn't matter in the slightest to someone commuting to work in their 15 year old Honda Accord with blown struts, but if you enjoy driving they're on the list of tires to avoid.
Everything is a tradeoff. Some tires do a better job of optimizing within their class, but the Michelin CC2 is assuredly not the best traction tires in general.
>They don't perform as well as winter tires in the winter, and
A lot of people don't live in climates where winter tires are even sold; particularly California, Texas, Florida, three of the most populous states. Many people in those states aren't even aware "winter tires" are even a product category. That's like complaining the Walmart in Anchorage, Alaska doesn't carry SPF 50 sunscreen.
Just as a geographic note: You can buy winter tires in California. The Sierra Nevada (snowy mountains) run down a sizable chunk of the state. California has even hosted the winter olympics.
You left the "and" but left out the critical part of my quote: They're not as good as summer-only tires in the summer.
> A lot of people don't live in climates where winter tires are even sold
The CrossClimate 2 tire we're talking about is an all-weather tire with the 3-peak snow designator. If you're trying to call me out for talking about winter tires in comparison to a tire designed for winter weather, I think you don't understand what we're talking about.
> Many people in those states aren't even aware "winter tires" are even a product category
Again, the CrossClimate 2 is a tire with a winter designation. California also has a lot of snowy locations.
> That's like complaining the Walmart in Anchorage, Alaska doesn't carry SPF 50 sunscreen.
Not only do stores in Anchorage carry SPF 50, but you're going to need it in the summer. When the sun is out for 20 hours a day, it adds up.
You're gonna want SPF 50 in Alaska too.
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I’ve not noticed a mushy feeling on my wife’s Mazda CX-9 with CC2s, but tbf it’s an SUV. One of the sportier SUVs around, but still.
For reference, I used to daily a Honda S2000 (not with CC2s, obviously).
> I’ve not noticed a mushy feeling on my wife’s Mazda CX-9 with CC2s, but tbf it’s an SUV. One of the sportier SUVs around, but still.
They are not great in that regard. Casual drivers won't usually care, but anyone who pays attention to handling usually hates them.
>Yes, there are trade-offs, but you can get really great tires on all three.
there is another metric at play with Michelin, they're consistently one of the most expensive options in every segment.
> ... can get really great tires on all three. The Michelin CrossClimate2 tires are arguably the best traction tires, Consumer Reports estimates 95,000 miles of tread life in their testing (higher than basically anything else), and they got a 4/5 for rolling resistance on Consumer Reports' dynamometer testing.
That is incredible. My front ones are toast after only 15 000 miles / 25 000 km ( Continental Sport Contact 3 / N0 rating) and two years. 95 000 miles and I'd need to change them not because of wear but because they'd be legally too old.
At some point I'll buy a reasonable car.
If you put Cross Climate 2s on whatever German car your Sport Contact 3s came on you'd instantly regret it just because of how it drives.
Indeed, I put a full set of CrossClimate2 on my German car and the two back tires were completely toast within 24 months and ~15k Km (on Canada). After that I decided to start using proper summer and winter tires.