Comment by nater5000
17 hours ago
This is a very "funny" post:
- OpenAI can easily not become anything of significance in the future, even if the OP's prediction of the future becomes reality. I'd argue that being bought by a government and controlled within the ethical confines of that government would be a great way for OpenAI to quickly fall behind its peers who aren't subject to such regulations (which is the entire point of this post in the first place).
- Norway may be a great country ran by a great government, but that doesn't mean they would be a great leader of some AI revolution. Not only is the bar for being a competent government not particularly high on the world scale, but the skills of a competent government don't necessarily translate to the skills of an AI revolution Sherpa. I don't see why the OP feels Norway wouldn't use an advanced AI to simply enrich itself while leaving other countries to fend for themselves. It's not like Norway's fund is designed to serve the rest of the world as it is, nor is it the case that Norwegians would allow their government to serve other countries at the cost of their own well being.
- Those at OpenAI would either (a) never entertain this offer or (b) would sell to Norway if this exact thesis wasn't true (i.e., they'd be happy to sell if they thought OpenAI was going to become worthless anyway). Using the logic that the Norwegian Government Pension Fund Global can just buy OpenAI because it has more money than a given valuation for OpenAI is embarrassing. It lacks any understanding of how businesses and investments work, let alone how investments in these specific businesses work. I mean, the OP starts this post off explaining how they think OpenAI can effectively rule the world once their expectations for their technology is realized. Why would they sell their ticket to unlimited wealth for a relatively small offer?
I agree, except for the second point. An owner isn't a leader. An owner isn't a Sherpa. An owner just owns. Many businesses can do perfectly fine without an active owner, and the owners that do make a difference for their ownee, often make things worse for their ownee, for society at large, or both.
The only way to have agi or any ai is to throw away all ethics then. So why are ai companies shredding books instead of using Anna's archive? Depending on your stance, one is more ethical than the other, but not both. And not neither of them.
> why are ai companies shredding books instead of using Anna's archive?
I'm pretty sure they've already consumed everything on Anna's Archive, The Pirate Bay etc., and they are now buying books to fill the gaps and to legally launder the corpus they already had. It has little to do with ethics (one could also question the ethics of buying rare, second-hand books and then destroying them).
> one could also question the ethics of buying rare, second-hand books and then destroying them
I believe that is exactly what the parent post is doing
> So why are ai companies shredding books
Because a cartoon mouse's parent company used regulatory capture to extend copyright for decades.
I'm sure they're using whatever they can get their hands on, including Anna's archive. The business process of buying books to scan offers the opportunity to ingest media that hasn't yet been digitized, but also provides plausible legal deniability against copyright holders bringing litigation.
Anna's archive is missing books and papers.
I want to believe most of what they're missing is material held in national and public university libraries and is material specific to the country the books or papers come from. Most of their collections are not digitized and that's what I keep seeing, and then some books that are profession-specific.
They're basically rebuilding Google books, and keeping it private. That's privatizing all of humanity's knowledge. Then from what I see some other missing books are just rephrasings of other books, which can already be done with synthetic data using another LLM to generate it. I would assume a lot of those books are school text books as well, which are almost never digitized and are rephrasings of university text books. Maybe they are not able to generate synthetic data of sufficient quality and are resorting to human books that rephrase information instead
2 replies →
Abandoning ethics doesn't mean you actively seek out unethical acts, it just means you only care about pragmatics. Limiting how overtly you break the law, copyright law in this case, is often pragmatic regardless of ethics.
Ah, good old "ethical confines" the thing that holds all sorts of things back.. back from what ?
Mostly back from exploiting the easily exploited and not paying for externalities.
I think Norway would have too much sense to entertain buying this, of course it would be fun because you'd hope they would remove Sam Altman and you might have an AI company not run by someone who spouts the absolute rubbish that current AI leaders do, they are all completely cringeworthy.
> holds all sorts of things back.. back from what ?
Folding proteins and cure cancer?
Deciphering animal languages?
Revolutionizing accessibility technology?
> I'd argue that being bought by a government and controlled within the ethical confines of that government would be a great way for OpenAI to quickly fall behind its peers who aren't subject to such regulations (which is the entire point of this post in the first place).
Behind in what? You write as if it is a univariate concern. I haven't read the post but why couldn't Norway force OpenAI to be more alignment-conscious? Then it would be ahead in safety, especially if competitors don't pay attention to that.
“Behind” = less capable, less used, less resourced. Safety and alignment don’t necessarily correlate with market dominance. If they did, no safety regulations would be needed.
We have to stop pretending that the market automatically arrives at socially optimal solutions. We don't say car safety regulations need to be weakened to compete with China, but when it comes to AI, safety magically goes out the window.
Especially government of a small, homogenous country with massive oil wealth in a peaceful part of the world. It's very much "easy mode" as far as governments go.
This is widely misunderstood about modern Norway. Twenty years ago, yes, it may have been true. Today, the population is about 17.5% foreign born. As a point of comparison, the United States is about 15% foreign born.
This must require a shocking cultural adaptation. In the US, we have many social bonding customs. You'll hear often about how Americans strike up conversations at random, often say "how are you?" as a default greeting, and smile a suspicious amount. There are dozens of examples, but that's because it's baked into the culture of USA as a foundational aspect. I can't imagine trying to shift from essentially Japan to America++ in two decades.
2 replies →
Where you happen to be born is the only criteria for population diversity?
You have oversimplified criteria for diversity.
right but the entire norwegian society and its welfare state was built upon that homogeneity, where everyone and their neighbor looked "familiar" and could be implicitly trusted to share the same customs. As the foreign born population grows, Norway has taken many steps to restrict immigration, asylum claims, and benefits to immigrants. public opinion has shifted (though not dramatically) as well. parent poster's claim of "easy mode" is receding, so it's not like norway has found a solution to "being a generous welfare state while also openly welcoming foreigners".
1 reply →
How much of that is from legal migration from developed first world countries for both countries?
I know I will be downvoted for this.
Just came back from traveling through Norway, and from my perspective as a Chicagoan, Oslo and Bergen definitely did not look or feel homogeneous.
Ah yes, massive oil wealth, that famously strong predictor of good governance.
What is wild to me: The United Kingdom, The Netherlands, and Norway took very different paths. For those unaware, the UK shares the North Sea with Norway and there is plenty of oil and gas extract in the UK area of the North Sea. And, the Netherlands has an enormous gas field in the northern part of its country. The UK and Netherlands left it up to private industry and (mostly) taxed it as regular business profits. They didn't create a national petro fund from these profits. However, Norway took a very different path. They created a state-run oil and gas company (Statoil/Equinor) that operate many of the oil and gas extraction sites, and famously created a national petro fund to manage most of the profits. I always wonder why... Was this a missed opportunity for UK and Netherlands?
8 replies →
It usually is when western countries don't continuously interfere with your government.
10 replies →
What are the counterexamples? Maybe Nigeria?
EDIT: yes, also Iraq and Venezuela
13 replies →
>homogenous country
must you whistle so loud, i'm deaf now
[flagged]
4 replies →
It is like a running joke that Norway can buy anything. The oil fund makes more money than the oil for the state btw. So don't underestimate their financial skills.
Haven't read the blog, but I can think of a good reason to sell. HQ moves to Norway, no more direct US government interference.
(they can still interfere, just not anywhere near the same scope)
You may think "but government ownership means more interference", and yes, but not radicalized, crazy assed, mercurial, emotional interference.
Yeah, move to EU to avoid government interference. Who wouldn't have thought that?
Norway is not part of EU (if by EU you meant European Union, not just a country in Europe)
Norway is participating in EU trade, but is not its member. They are part of Schengen (passport-free travel between 29 European countries).
On the other hand, move to the EU and market to customers who don't want to worry about trade wars disrupting their business or the US government subpoena-ing data. Probably not a big enough market to justify that move yet, but it's not obvious to this American that my government is going to reverse its current self-destructive course.
The US government would never allow a sale. Frontier intelligence given away? It is the ASML story all over again. I would hope we have learned our lesson.
> no more direct US government interference
Bro, c'mon.
If the US wants to interfere with something they will interfere with it.
To think otherwise is Euro-brain-maxxing.
You didn't even make it to the parent's third sentence "bro".
1 reply →
> Not only is the bar for being a competent government not particularly high on the world scale
This is such a ridiculous, preposterously self-confident claim. Claims like this give HN (and engineers in general) a bad reputation.
Edit: relevant xkcd https://xkcd.com/793/
What about this sentiment is specific to HN or engineers, that non-HN-types would so vigorously disagree with? How many countries in the world would have the average respondent in a survey describe their government as competent?
I don't disagree with the sentiment but I think obviously negativity bias would be a significant cofounder.
Oblig...
"Contra a bunch of idiots at Hacker News and elsewhere.."
https://daringfireball.net/2026/08/follow-up_thoughts_on_wat...
English Is the Finest Language, and Thus, Perhaps, More Fingerprintable
Lastly, here’s an interesting point to ponder. English is the most expressive language in the world. Don’t take my word for it — it’s the only language I speak...
There are 7170 living languages in the world today and quoting Borges doesn't improve the statistical relevance of his statement. Why does this person's blog get so much prominence on here?
> This is such a ridiculous, preposterously self-confident claim. Claims like this give HN (and engineers in general) a bad reputation.
all you've done is use some fancy words to discredit OP's claim.
what makes you think people who have built all the extremely complex and robust technical infrastructure are unable to comprehend of this amazingly complex government that you seem to be putting on a pedestal, let alone design a better one?
how about even a simpler question: why are almost all governments inefficient (except may be few like tax department) and are full of red-carpet paper pushers?
> why are almost all governments inefficient
Efficiency is not the aim of government, except in constrained ways. Efficiency would generally run contrary to governance, transparency, innovation, responsiveness, general applicability, justice, rule following, considering the long term and not just the short term, recognition of human dignity, security etc.
All those things have a cost that takes away from maximum delivery efficiency, but generally societies decide that the cost is worth it.
>> how about even a simpler question: why are almost all governments inefficient (except may be few like tax department) and are full of red-carpet paper pushers?
That you can just assert that as though it is a fact universally known says a lot where your head is at. If the private sector is so efficient, how come US health care is so much more expensive than some public health systems with better outcomes? How come public utilities are sometimes cheaper than private ones? Why do public fire departments exist at all, why not have contractors? Etc.
I agree government is often inefficient. The world is just obviously more complicated then you are considering.
us-east-1 goes down and half of the "extremely complex and robust technical infrastructure" that Silicon Valley types have built stops working.
The average computer toucher with delusions of grandeur would kill themselves if they had to moderate a public assembly or do a public facing job in a municipal office. Of course you believe that's peon work and your superior intellect with unlimited power as leader would build something better, cue https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_State_Project
It fits into such a stereotype for HN types, TBH it's the kind of thing that keeps visiting this place amusing.
[dead]