Comment by Spivak
14 hours ago
It comes down the web browser being used for two different use cases and two camps arguing past one another.
Documents vs Programs
The parent is rightfully pointing out that most websites are documents and have no need for client side rendering or interactivity. You are rightfully pointing out that VanillaJS is insufficient to build software in the browser.
Where I imagine you lose some people is that comboboxes can be done natively with the datalist attribute.
> The parent is rightfully pointing out that most websites are documents and have no need for client side rendering or interactivity.
Where does that html come from, then? Do you honestly believe all pages could be static html+css served from some bucket? Or do they need to be rendered by a programm running on a server? Because once you start talking about servers generating pages then all this talk about JavaScript frameworks boils down to arguing where the complexity should be in place A or B.
It comes from a server designed at CERN.
Yes? Users often prefer a nice GUI but CMSs are effectively what you describe and run the majority of content oriented sites. Static site generators are just the dev-centric version of that. The more common situation is that you're generating pages on the server and shipping a massive JS bundle just to display what could have been rendered once.
But even given your position you see no difference between shipping the user a binary and shipping source code plus a compiler in terms of the user's experience? Surely the existence of server side react points to the server doing the initial lift being an improvement.
> Yes? Users often prefer a nice GUI but CMSs are effectively what you describe and run the majority of content oriented sites.
I don't think you understood my question. I stressed the fact that complaining about the complexity of a page implemented with a JavaScript framework is a red herring, because said complexity doesn't go away by moving it to a server.
And the old "dynamic HTML" approach is not easier to maintain and developm. By far.
In the meantime, what goes away is performance and perceived performance. Your dynamic HTML pages need to travel all around the world until clients see an update, and a page reload is far heavier and time consuming than doing a fetch to get data.
Try to ask yourself this simple question: why do software engineers bother with JavaScript frameworks? Do you think everyone has absolutely no idea about what they are doing?