Comment by jan_m_savage
7 hours ago
The author of this article needs to hit the books--yesterday.
The conditions she describes as 'perversity' is just the heightened response of an over-stressed brain.
The suicidal thoughts (that still horrify the person thinking them) aren't due to a so-called Freudian perversity as the author implies, but are a first step towards total mental breakdown (which actually ends up in suicide, due to to the struggle with such thoughts--which is a form of depression).
When I was extremely stressed for long periods of time, with no solution in sight, I did enter this stage. Photos I took for a mugshot in this period show a slight shine in my eyes that I hadn't before (that's another sign the brain is disintegrating). I'd stand over overpasses and watch cars drive by, and then a little voice would tell me: jump! jump! while another thought which felt more stronger, would consider this horrifying and made me reflect on why I was thinking such thoughts.
It wasn't limited to the visible possibilities, either. Frequently when the stress would become unbearable, a little strange thought would make me think of tall buildings and let me imagine that by jumping from one, my problems would cease.
I've recovered from those thoughts now -- because luckily my stressors were eliminated -- and I no longer experience such thoughts or voices. I mention all this to help others realize that they need to seek help and solve their stressors instead of falling back on the quack-doctor Freud's ideas that "oh it's in our nature to be perverse!".
I have the impression you could be confusing suicidality with the little voice that says "what if I stuck my finger in the candle wax?" or "what if I forgot to put on clothes before going to work?" and only mentions tall buildings once or twice a year.
I'm pretty sure the latter is really common. I've always thought it was my brain generating failure cases for risk assessment. We think "What if I dropped this bottle of water on my lap while driving and crashed?" and then we take more care not to drop it.
GP mentions concurrent extreme stress and multiple variations of suicidal ideation, along with a prediction of the relief that would bring. Also, that the thoughts stopped once the stress did.
Not sure how they could describe suicidality more clearly. Speaking as someone who has also experienced it due to chronic health conditions that had gotten particularly bad for a while.
Yes, and I'm saying that is clearly suicidality, but I think TFA is talking about something else.
Yes, intrusive thoughts are common, and are fairly independent from actual self-destructiveness. You can have intrusive thoughts without being especially self-destructive, and you can be self-destructive without thinking much.
These are called intrusive thoughts. I have learned about these through a family member with ADHD. With ADHD, you can have the dual problem of both the wandering, intrusive thoughts, with sometimes the lack of impulse control. It can be really dangerous for some.
What the poster is talking about is different, something that occurs in a deep depression where your mind is struggling to find a way out of the situation. Sometimes the will gives out completely and you're just a zombie to the world, only slogging forward out of habit and maybe guilt.
There's another term for the certain-death variety which I prefer - the "call of the void". I think that captures it nicely.
I know that the poster is talking about something that occurs in deep depression, but I don't think Edgar Allan Poe was and I don't think TFA was either.
Psychology is so much more complex and varied in its manifestations and etiologies than you're suggesting here.
I'm glad that you found a framework that helped you with your experiences, but it's very important that you understand that many other people had deeply different experiences than you did for very different reasons. Suggesting a single cause of suicidality as due to stress is profoundly irresponsible, and enforcing that framework on other people could quite literally kill them.
I agree with you that the author of the article is wildly off base, but so are you. Suggesting she needs to "hit the books" and then describing your personal journey as universal is a particular study in not taking your own advice.
I also feel like they don't understand what self-destructive impulses are. Forgetting your wallet on your car and driving away? Seriously?
I think it's better captured by this line from a Tunng song:
They clearly haven't seen self-sabotage in action if they think forgetting your wallet is it! Think more throwing away a long term relationship whose stability you've longed for all your life, or getting drunk on the day of your bar exam.
I think about that article of the travel-blogger who admired Anthony Bourdain and her experience with self-sabotage. Partying out late at night in a sketchy unfamiliar country. Letting herself head home alone at 3 AM with her senses impaired just from a sense of not-caring clearly bordering on severe negligence. I've brushed on some thoughts the same and it's nothing like forgetting my wallet or keys, sometimes you're aware with what you're gambling and just don't really care about the outcome.
Her personal example was odd, but there are many other valid examples of destructive impulses cited by her (and Poe) in the essay
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