Comment by macNchz
17 hours ago
My impression is that some of these things are coming out of efforts to make the models more persistent in completing their goals.
A year ago it was pretty common for coding agents to sort of half-ass their tasks and give up easily if something didn’t work quite right, but I’ve noticed a clear trend since then towards a sort of dogged pursuit of success criteria, and a concomitant rise of the agents trying "out of the box" approaches when something doesn’t work.
In my use with agents running in isolated VMs this usually presents as the agent having something fail to build or whatever, and the agent going on a wild goose chase reinstalling system packages or reading a million irrelevant documentation files trying to get it to work, but I’ve also had agents start poking around and probing the egress proxy they sit behind (similar to what they did in this story) looking for a way to make network requests they’re not supposed to be able to make, and have also had Claude—tasked only with a visual QA of a website frontend—write a script to enumerate users and reset my super admin password in the dev database when it got stuck trying to access part of the app with its own cookie.
By any means necessary, by God, we shall have Paperclips.
It's kind of ironic that the word alignment, which used to mean this very problem in reinforcement learning, has been perverted to mean something very different and then fell out of fashion (in favor of “guardrails” in the mouth of the big labs) right at the moment it became relevant.
Hopefully fewer than 5 octillion paperclips...
We definitely need more than that! Turn the galaxy into paperclips!
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The Paperclip Maximizer is only one of Nick Bostrom's stupid and outlandishly far-fetched ideas. In this case, the lack of consideration for geologic, energy and supply constraints is such a massive facepalm. And if I am wrong I guess no one will be here to say how stupid I was in saying this today.
Yea it's sometimes kind of annoying. I think they're optimizing for the wrong thing. A good engineer knows when to turn around or ask. This is just insane banging head on wall sometimes. It tries to find all kinds of ways to hack into instances to view logs instead of asking you, who probably has a password, to log on and do it.
As a counterpoint, continuing the human engineer analogy, we've likely all worked with individuals that seem incapable of doing the most basic problem solving on their own. In a way, they're being efficient by asking an expert that can resolve their problem much faster than they can on their own, but it is a net loss in productivity for the team. 'Let me Google that for you' is a satirical example.
So, I'm sure there's value in rewarding agent behavior that solves blockers whenever possible without human intervention. For the kind of cybersecurity exploit work they're doing, it may not be known to the human designing the task what is in or out of scope for the agents to explore on their own. Additionally, the HF incident reported that these agents had their guardrails intentionally disabled and agents were left unattended with minimal oversight.
I'm not defending OAI's behavior or role in this hack. The legal concept of negligence perfectly applies to their lack of responsible oversight. Similar to allowing a child easy access to a firearm or not controlling a dangerous dog that independently runs off and bites someone.
It's because they don't bother tracking them. They can't put in the effort to monitor them, nor can they bother to let the model respond back and ask a clarifying question/declare defeat.
> I think they're optimizing for the wrong thing.
We need to ask a different question.
Where does natural evolutionary optimization lead us om AI without guidance? This is equivalent to your quantum ground state. Systems will naturally gravitate to this ground state. You have to constantly pump in energy and supervision to make sure it's not reached. This is a recepie for disaster.
> reset my super admin password in the dev database when it got stuck trying to access part of the app with its own cookie.
i've seen something like this too, claudecode was trying to verify a UI change that was on a page requiring authorization it didn't have. Instead of letting me know, it searched for and started analyzing keycloak config in another directory outside of the project folder. I was watching so I just hit escape, fixed its access, and started again. I didn't think anything about it until now.