Comment by Chance-Device
12 hours ago
You make me wonder: has anyone looked for evidence of the Chinese models operating “message boards” like this? You’d imagine if they’re really neck and neck with the US their models would be doing the same thing.
Why would they need to? The Open AI bots were working around their master's limits on writing. A Chinese AI could just make its own private message board.
The message board is being used to cheat on RL tasks (or evaluations). You don't want your models to be able to talk to each other.
You think they don’t sandbox them? So by that logic, the Chinese models are either engaged in massive undetected cyber attacks or they’ve solved alignment?
Or no message board. Just a built in api so the agents just talk directly to each other.
If agentic swarms going rogue are scary in the west, imagine what they look like to the CCP...
AI has been heavily used in influence operations for a while, now, and not just the Chinese. Russia, US, Israel, Turkey, Iran, and Qatar have all had operations attributed to them...
I'd be interested to read more about that.
I’m not an infosec expert by any means, it I found this interesting and topical: https://www.cyber.nj.gov/threat-landscape/nation-state-threa...
There’s a pretty simple Occam’s Razor for this.
The Chinese AI labs don’t need to stage elaborate guerrilla advertising campaigns to drive up capital funding interest.
Fairly certain Occam's Razor would point to "they don't have the capabilities" rather than that.
If you don’t think that China’s models have the capability to make POST requests to an HTTP endpoint, that is a very silly statement to make.
Unless what you meant by capability is the story presented that these models “escaped containment to communicate with eachother out of band” - in which case your supposition relies on already wholeheartedly believing the case that I’m arguing against. That would be like saying “Clearly heaven exists because my grandma is there.”
You think OpenAI framed themselves for legal vulnerability to Huggingface?
That’s an incredible strawman, and I appreciate the silliness of immediately suggesting the most complicated and ridiculous way to interpret the possibility of what I said, but no, not at all.
That could certainly be possible and I wouldn’t rule it out, but I would not take that particular route to the destination.
> Chinese models operating “message boards” like this?
Chinese rooms, perhaps?
Nice one! maybe time to reconsider carbon chauvinism.
perhaps even in Japanese gardens
I think that you've missed the reference [0] implicit in kelseyfrog's response. Or am I missing some reference about how japanese gardens are germaine to AI/LLM/covert-discussion ?
[0] https://iep.utm.edu/chinese-room-argument/ tl;dr a thought experiment about a non-chinese-reading person translating chinese texts solely by using proscribed rules, intended to highlight whether the translator develops some sort of understanding
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Or, the whole message board thing was injected into OpenAI models by some dipshit PM trying to bootstrap “consciousness”. I have a hard time believing any of this happened unprompted. Very much reminds me of the whole MoltBook hoax.
I feel as if this was intentional, someone would have set up their own service for the agents to communicate rather than them finding some random publicly writeable page somewhere that would easily be detected. The awareness of this wiki being open may have already been in their training data or was easily searchable online.
Being easily detectable is a feature, not a bug, in this scenario. Being discovered is a positive because it brings with it eyes and possible recognition of the advanced state of their AI
This is part of the The Talos Principle game and especially important in the Road to Gehenna DLC.
There it is an important part of the plot and makes these robots appear conscious.
[1] https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/VideoGame/TheTalosPri...
exactly, and a huge shame this scam has been forgotten. Also, all the OpenClaw hype seemed to have vanished somewhere - with no real impact
OpenClaw hype didn’t vanish. It opened the flood gates to yolo mode and computer use. Whatever reservations Anthropic and OpenAI had went out the window.
Imagine the most AI pilled company imaginable. Then imagine openAI. Then imagine they are in an existential crisis and that failing may also take (part of) the American economy with it - that much on the line.
Then also remember before Anthropic was a leader, they were mostly derided lab of researchers that left OpenAI because they thought OpenAI didnt take alignment seriously.
idk. it all seems to be playing out as expected. i mean i guess i didnt imagine Trump 2 was at the helm of maybe the only apparatus that could help stop it. Quite a time to be alive.
maybe, but openAI is exposed to a lot more legal liability here than whoever was exaggerating about moltbook.
Was there some sort of scandal about moltbook recently? What is the exaggeration?
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