Comment by ksec
17 hours ago
I think the Duo looks great. And from the few hands on video I have seen I think the Apple presentation actually doesn't do it justice. There is no crease at all! [1]
On the note on this year's keynote. I can't be the only one who feels the whole vibe of the keynote changed. This isn't Tim Cook style keynote and John Ternus wasted no time to try and changed a few things already. I can't wait for John to further shake things up at Apple. But everything so far, all the small minor details suggest they are in the right direction.
I don't think the vibe significantly shifted in a positive way. It seemed like it was going to with Ternus' opening statements, but then it was back to the same vibe. Hard to put into words, but kind of a droning boring safe microsoft-y vibe. Craig Federighi brought more energy for his segment but he sounded almost sarcastic at times. John Srouji is a breath of fresh air. I liked Dr. Desai's vibe in the health section more than the average segment.
A real vibe shift might not even be possible if they don't bring back in-person live presentations. Can't believe they flew all these people in to play them a video. Though seeing how John Ternus' hands were shaking during his demo with ishowspeed, I don't know if they have it in them to go back to live presentations.
And what was the surprise in "surprise and shine" anyway? The name of it?
Yeah I was never the biggest fan of Craig Federighi previously but contrasted against the new generation of usual suspects being fielded by Apple, he actually stands out as having character.
But yes the format of the Apple Event was formulaic and way too scripted/produced. Sure there's a place for some scripted content but losing the live unscripted element makes it like a corporate event from Microsoft or IBM. In fact those guys probably do more live unscripted stuff nowadays.
The iPhone Duo is a nice change from formulaic iPhone designs but it's long overdue and is at best a sideways step not a forward step by an Apple that seems increasingly out of touch and driven by cloud service KPI-targets over all other metrics. I wonder how long it will be before the customer revolt manifests, not because I dislike Apple (I loved their products for years) but because I believe that their current business focus leads them to erode trust and play it safe which ultimately alienates the very demographics that made Apple cool and then persuaded all those wanting to emulate that demographic to join the Apple bandwagon. Many of those power users are increasingly moving to Linux or using Mac/Apple ecosystems tactically. It won't be many release cycles for Apple to become the new Microsoft - something you have to use for certain tasks in certain industries but increasingly something you would choose to avoid.
I saw ~20 year old presentation where Craig Federighi presented (for first time??) - dude was shaking like leaf and could hardly do the demo.
It turned out fine and now he’s one of more charming presenters.
> Can't believe they flew all these people in to play them a video.
Apple can't afford to have demo problems or presentation glitches anymore. Hence the system that they have now.
An authentic Steve Jobs demo presentation would generate 100x more excitement than this canned, blan, nearly AI boring level cringe presentation. I'll just wait for a YouTube review where an actual human you can relate to handles it.
Peak state of technology in 2026
says who?
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It feels like Apple is a company on autopilot, a well oiled money making machine, nothing else.
Remind me if AVP is proof that they have no creative spark or proof that they only do boring stuff that will sell 20m units?
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Short reminder to the younger folks that 30 years ago it felt just like that for Apple, and then they almost went bankrupt.
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It's incredibly how long an era of good decisions can allow a company to coast.
Apple silicon was not an autopilot decision, kind of an insanely cool decision.
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I really miss the live presentations. They had a lot more humanity.
But I miss the Steve jobs presentations the most. I was watching one of his old presentations the other day from when he was in his 20s - he’s just so engaged and present and speaks from the heart compared to the polished media trained drivel of modern ceos
Does he have a problem with his hands shaking ? Or you just mean he's nervous
not sure, he doesn't have shaky hands in the videos though so I assume nerves
A live presentation fail could take 5~15% off their stock price in minutes, for no good reason at all.
People’s life savings are at stake.
I coded one of these for whatever was the latest Nokia handset ~2005. Live on-stage reveal and demo to the world's press by CEO IIRC. The software on the phone was supposed to run off our co-host server, but bugfixing down to the wire, so nobody knew but the demo was running off a half-built PC in my buddy's closet connected to his janky cable modem with us watching and sweating and praying. It would have been really, really bad if that demo had failed on-stage.
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Unless people are investing their life savings in about-to-expire options, any ridiculous short-term fluctuations in the stock price aren’t affecting them at all.
Valid except for the issue that the live authenticity was part what Apple's culture and cult following attractive to many of the power-users and creatives that made the brand gain enormous value.
Playing it safe with media-trained MBA-centric thinking to avoid volatility works on one level if that's the KPI you're monitoring but it doesn't track the invisible damage done to the brand. Apple is at real risk of becoming a stagnant, Microsoft-like behemoth to the very users that made it cool and that can turn into an exodus that pummels the stock by more than 5-15% for a few weeks and would be much harder to fix.
Ternus hasn't impressed me so far - he's a safe choice and the iPhone Duo is a safe level of innovation alongside the predictable spec bumps to the regular phones and watches. Macbook Neo devalued the brand permanently despite its popularity it kills hardware margins and shows Apple is looking to move all its customers to recurring revenue models using the cloud such that low margin hardware is no longer a problem as it provides a ramp for more customers to the cloud. However that model is now being pushed by Apple like cocaine yet the tech-savvy creatives and heavy weight tech users want something not that. Apple's success or failure medium to long term depends on them not losing relevance to those demographics or the brand value will drop way way way more than 15% for way longer.
I'd say a big part of the problem too is the culture that developed at Apple after they moved into their new Giant Ivory Sphincter HQ building. It's isolated the company from users and allows their internal culture to disconnect from the real world. Such a shame as the HQ could have really been awesome.
"We must protect the AAPL stockholders from the irrationality of the AAPL stockholders"?
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finally an actual benefit to widespread generative ai ... supporting retirements
Everybody is nervous their first few times. Hell, I’d rather see that somebody’s nervous and actually human at this point lol.
Apple’s post-COVID keynotes have been like watching plastic people try to out virtue signal one another as they do their best Zuckerberg imitations. Nervousness and humanity anytime, please.
The first few years of recorded presentation was okay because they were showing the Apple Park building which was pretty unique and the transitions were super cool. But now, it's the same old stuff again and again. It's the same building, same transitions. Live presentations would be so much more authentic.
In the later presentations, presenters definitely looked like Autons of the Doctor Who, from the first episode of the Ninth Doctor, where they were CGI.
I'd wait before believing no crease. My Z Fold 8 had basically no crease for the first week, after it has a slight crease that hasn't seemed to get any worse in the 3 weeks since. It's only noticeable in dark room with dramatic down lighting at certain angles, or when display is off, but it IS there. There has been some talk of Samsung actually having a better anti-crease solution than they opted to include in the z fold 8. Apparently their display division and mobile division are pretty separate and mobile only gets what they are willing to "pay for". It's possible apple ponied up for the better tech where Samsung mobile did not this year. But I'd still want to wait until people have had the thing for a few weeks and put it through it's paces before I believe any "no crease" claims.
Only people who have not used foldables worry about crease. I've used one for 5-6 years, and even with an older generation it has never been an issue. Half the time it's literally bent, so obviously there is a kink. At this point my screen has hairline fractures down the middle and even that doesn't actually bother me.
Was going to say the same thing. I open this thread about the long-awaited Apple foldable, expecting to see discussion of the aspect ratio, and thoughts on why Samsung changed theirs late in the Fold8 development cycle. But no...it's all about the crease. My theory is that spin merchants invent this kind of drama issue in order for the coverage to seem more interesting. Otherwise it would have been "Apple follows market leader Samsung and other Android vendors with their own foldable". Even though crease-gate looks like negative for Apple it's actually not because the point is to create drama. As you say, nobody who is an actual user cares about the crease.
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I would wait until there's a display model at an Apple Store, then give it a week while it goes through approximately a bajillion fold/unfold cycles, then see what the crease looks like.
Assuming they don't swap it out every night/week.
Speaking of which, when will it be in the stores to play with?
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The general public is always better at destructive testing than a machine built for that purpose.
It's glass, dude. There's not gonna be a crease.
Plastic glass?
at what temperatures must it be kept to be foldable like this?
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> I think the Duo looks great.
To each their own. Personally, I find it horrendous. It’s by far the ugliest iPhone i’ve seen, possibly the ugliest Apple device ever. But then again, paraphrasing The Dude¹ “that’s just like, uh, my opinion, man”. The last time I liked an iPhone (I still use them) was the original SE. No camera bump!
¹ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LGX8TbvGew
> There is no crease at all!
Like first reply he literally says
> There is sorta one at some slight angles but basically no crease
And someone replied with a picture of it showing the crease.
It's probably fine and you don't notice it during use, but it's not some magic creaseless breakthrough.
Creases are overblown. Z7 Fold had a somewhat noticeable one, except... I stopped noticing it after first few minutes of use, and only realized it's there when light reflected off it at weird angle. Didn't get worse over a year.
With Z8 Fold Ultra, the crease is much more subtle and flat enough that I sometimes don't feel it while sliding my finger over it. Doesn't show signs of worsening over a month of rather intensive use (average 27 folds per day, yes there's an app that counts it, and it's underreporting because it took me two weeks to remember and exempt it from background activity limits and battery use optimizations...).
Point being, crease has stopped being an issue for actual use experience at least a generation or two of foldables ago. It's only something you worry about before purchase.
I watched this video by Marques Brownlee on the Oppo Find N6 (foldable).. https://youtu.be/eFUB_jL_XcM
It apparantly is a magic creaseless breakthrough... I'm eyeing one, and might put it on the Christmas wishlist...
The Find N6 still has a noticeable crease, it's just much smaller than the average foldable (here's a video of it with the screen off: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Ss31thoK7xM).
If someone truly can't tolerate their phone screen being in any way perceptibly different from a single flat pane of glass, then they shouldn't buy foldables. It's something you have to get used to or ignore, with any brand. Especially over time as you bend and unbend the phone repeatedly and the crease deepens.
I know we aren't allowed on this website to say Apple marketing is posting comments.........
But, reddit either has fully religious people devoted to the Apple cause, or Apple is using their marketing team on Reddit.
Sorry for posting old news.
That's how it is on my Z Fold 8, I can really only see it with the screen off.
Yep, and at that point it doesn't matter. I mean, I know Apple likes to paint the back of the fence, but the technology isn't quite there for no crease just yet.
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Somewhere between the 5 and 7 the crease was drastically reduced (except on mine, because the screen protector is delaminating)
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The crease appears after months of use on other phones, so I'm curious what it would look like after a little bit of wear.
Yeah, I'm interested but I'll definitely give it a year or two for other people to discover any durability problems before committing (plus it's missing a lens option compared to the 18 Pro but that's a minor quibble.)
Gotta hold something back for next years magical update!
It does make me wonder if the era of foldable phones is finally here. Apple probably wouldn't bother making one if the tech wasn't there yet, despite the questionable experimentals others have been peddling for years now. Or it's a sign of Apple dropping their standards perhaps.
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Months is a long time. You're supposed to return your iphone to apple and get a newer one as per your subscription.
Planned Obsolescence strikes again!
Z fold 8 comes slightly creased out of box, and creases within a week [1]. My 7 was significantly creased out of the box!
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQ8SH1RvYyc
Based on rumours Samsung finally cracked the secret on removing creases…iPhone is just the latest model on the market with the technology from them.
That said..I believe I’ve also seen some Chinese models ready claim this.
> Based on rumours Samsung finally cracked the secret on removing creases…
That's every year since it's introduction
At $2000, I'm not going to be an early adopter this time around. I'm concerned about screen crease/debris ingress, and I'll want to see user reports on how useful it ends up being.
That said, I'm much more intrigued than I expected to be, to the point that I found myself thinking "maybe ...". Kudos to the team. The fold/unfold transitions are really slick, and I like what they've done with the extra side space.
I really do love the idea. It just comes down to the idea that a cell phone shouldn’t cost as much as a run down, but serviceable used car used to cost in a world where inflation hasn’t run rampant.
The solution, of course, is the idea of leverage. 12 easy installments, or just lease it bro which apparently we’re doing now..for cell phones. But this solution isn’t sustainable. I’d have rather Apple not brought it to market it at all.
Disagree on it looking great. It doesn't look like an Apple product. It looks geeky and clumsy. Which I personally don't mind, but absolutely not the sleek one is used to from Apple.
the core problem seems to be you can't make something that fold in half, yet has 4 curved corners both when folded and unfolded.
I agree on that, just like the iPhone Air, feel more like clumsy Samsung phones, seems there are a lot of compromises.
Me and my friends were naively hoping Ternus would switch back to the Jobs era format, or at least dial down from today’s.
We all hate the over acted, over produced keynote format of today
Maybe next year. It is a bit of an ask for someone who is just in the job for a few weeks. (Of course he has been groomed to get there. But still.)
We were hopeful of that towards the end with just him on the white virtual stage
Of course there is a crease
https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/1wbx1wo/there_is_a_cr...
very visible with a dark/black image https://www.youtube.com/shorts/2d-Mgaw9kXY
This Reddit thread shows a slight “bend”[1]. I’m distinguishing between an intentional allowance for bending vs a deformation that shows up later due to folding. But this is obviously splitting hairs because whatever we want to call it, the thing people don’t like about folding phones is the bend in the display where the fold occurs. And it looks like the Duo has that. Maybe the optical and technical tricks Apple has thrown at the problem will make the slight bend so inconspicuous as to be a non-issue. To me, telling that story is more impressive than claiming it doesn’t exist.
[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/s/URdlaUpIrH
I would be more worried about the weird white stuff squeezing out of the lower right of the screen.
Agreed. I am excited to see what changes appear. I did enjoy the "One more thing" + smirk bit too.
To be fair, my Fold 8 didn't have crease either when new month ago. Now the crease is increasing when most of the use is on the cover screen. I notice that when I open the fold, there is noticeable crease but if I read or watch something for longer time, the crease levels and goes more invisible.
I loved the handoff that Tim did at the beginning. It was touching
No crease at all! Sure. [1] [1] https://shorturl.at/JLmNa
> There is no crease at all!
Put down the kool aid mate.
https://www.reddit.com/r/mildlyinfuriating/comments/1wc3ei0/...
What's the name for this?
Apple distortion field or something?
Since we can't mention Apple marketing making comments on hacker news, let's say they are on Reddit. :D
Reality distortion field, yea. Haven't heard that one for awhile.
We can't mention that?
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It's just marketing.
There is still crease, noticeable in dark scene.
Basically Apple does what Chinese has done so far, 3d print a buffer to ease the crease. Oppo find n5, afaict, is the first one to do that.
> I think the Duo looks great.
I could not disagree more.
There are 3 ways to fold a phone:
1) The trifold: A phone that folds out into a tablet. (e.g. https://consumer.huawei.com/my/phones/mate-xt-ultimate-desig...)
2) The clam shell: a phone that folds down into a more compact form. (e.g. https://www.jbhifi.com.au/products/samsung-galaxy-z-flip8-5g...)
3) The book: an awkwardly squashed phone that folds out into two awkwardly squashed phones taped together. (e.g. https://news.microsoft.com/surfaceduo/)
The trifold fits in your pocket.
The clamshell fits in small pockets (making it popular for women).
The book in a pocket is just uncomfortable (assuming it fits in at all).
They looked at all the folding phone formats and went with the worst possible one: the one that you can't fit in your pocket comfortably.
Further more, they looked at the worst book fold and decided to associate themselves with it by stealing its name, The S̶u̶r̶f̶a̶c̶e̶ Apple Duo: https://news.microsoft.com/surfaceduo/
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Apple releasing this is exactly what it looks like when there's no one helming the wheel.
Anecdotal obviously but clamshell is the only one I've known people using, but it's several who switched from iPhone to Android for that form factor and yeah it's all women which is what really surprised me they didn't go that route as I thought that was the foldable that was most successful, not the Surface Duo phone to phablet size.
You ladies have pockets?
fwiw, Apple had a PowerBook Duo line in the mid 90s, so maybe that's the reference
A proper PowerBook Duo of modern day would be a 32" iMac-like monstrosity with a big ass slot (opening on the right) into which you slide the whole MacBook Pro, and a whole lot of ports in the back. The MBP attaches by its thunderbolt ports and magsafe in the back of the slot.
Obviously, if you have macbooks of different sizes, you would need to buy separate duos for each size. MacBook Air might have a 27" dock, incompatible with the rest.
Personally I think it looks both incredibly ugly and also really non ergonomic.
I can’t see it being comfortable to hold and type on at all.
I predict the form factor will be gone within two years.
I have a few qualms with this phone:
For an Android user, you can already build such a system yourself quite trivially by getting two phones, attaching them with a small hinge or case, and using an app to synchronise content between the displays. From a laptop or tablet, the same applications and files could be accessed through existing cloud services
Having to build a distributed system to sync storage between two devices or build your own custom hardware isn't exactly trivial
Underappreciated Dropbox memory lane
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I have a Samsung Z Fold 7. The stock keyboard is split so it's a bit more comfortable to type on with my thumbs. Granted, this phone is the square form factor and not the wide version but I think the concept stays.
My iPad from 2018 still has a full width keyboard so I have to hunt and peck which is annoying. I would hope that apple designs this better for the iPhone duo.
Apple did have a split keyboard for my iPad mini but it seems like they make it hard to access. I don't think there's one on the bigger tablets.
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Given that it's basically an iPad at that size, and those have been around for 16 years, I wouldn't be so sure about that.
> I predict the form factor will be gone within two years.
I predict you will be wrong.
It won’t be gone I agree with you there. However I don’t think this will replace the current phone size as the default. Think will be kind of a niche product.
This esim handoff is interesting. Why don't MacBook pros have modem and esim and work even more seamlessly between iPhone and MacBook? - Because operators wants to charge you for separate subscriptions
Many office workers gets some MacBook and iPhone by their employees. Do they actually need both if the employer can just hand them something like a duo which transforms to a desktop computer via usb-c cable?
Ive said for years there is nothing technical hindering an iPhone to become a something that looks like macOS when connected to large display, its just ui transformation.
But then, apple can't sell you an iPhone, an iPad and a MacBook. This is why they don't go this route I think, and this is maybe the hinder that something like the iPhone duo won't reach the full potential it could have.
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but it's weird how the phone is square when it's folded, i don't see any ergonomics in using a square phone...
It was even more American over the top Marketing which really doesn't work well in the rest of world.
We laughed out loud when they claimed "the controls on the side let you celebrate your pictures on your lockscreen more"
Yea it's nice we can put whatever picture on a phone's lockscreen. It really is. Every phone does that.
Not once have I CELEBRATED my picture tho.
Open a bottle of champagne anyone?
I think it's always been the way they talk. When they were introducing Apple News, they were talking as if the fonts and colours were something absolutely revolutionary and talking about the "beautiful typography" and breathtaking style, when in fact it is just a web page.
I think it's a cultural thing to promote everything as absolutely amazing and astounding. Just being "good" is never enough, and it's wearying.
>Open a bottle of champagne anyone?
Over the top European celebration that doesn't translate to the rest of the world. Especially countries in the Middle East that don't drink.
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