Comment by seabre
18 hours ago
As someone who has been hit with fraud on a debit card and a credit card, the process to recover money from fraud on a credit card is so much easier and more hassle-free than a debit card.
The big difference is that with a debit card, it's your money that is hit by fraud. The debit card is basically just a proxy. You have to go file a police report. You have to hope the bank will give you the money back.
When the credit card gets hit, it's the credit card company's money and they will seemingly chase the fraud to the ends of the earth to recover it.
> The big difference is that with a debit card, it's your money that is hit by fraud.
I kind of disagree. I think what's happened is the bank would prefer you to believe that. Imagine I kept my money at the bank, and deposited $10000 with the teller. Immediately afterward a robber follows in and steals that $10000 from the teller. Does the bank say "oh no Mr. TheChao! A robber stole your $10000!". I mean, no? The bank got robbed. Just because the bank's digital security is more tied one-to-one to dollars and its easier for a robber to steal from "my till" doesn't mean it was me who was robbed. It's the bank's job to stop that.
This was also the subject of a brief sketch on That Mitchell and Webb Look:
> Bank official: Sit down Mr. Coleman, I'm, I'm afraid I've got bad news about your account.
> Mr. Coleman: Really?
> Bank official: I'm very sorry to say that someone's stolen your identity.
> Mr. Coleman: Oh God! Do you know who it was?
> Bank official: Well -- they said they were you, but uh--
> Mr. Coleman: Of course. So, um, what happened?
> Bank official: Well it was on the bank website, someone logged in, and committed identity theft electronically.
> Mr. Coleman: I see. Did they take anything else?
> Bank official: Uh, no.
> Mr. Coleman: Oh good, so all the money's still there...
> Bank official: What?
> Mr. Coleman: Well: it's just my identity that's gone -- none of your money?
> Bank official: Well no, they did -- they, they, emptied your account. It's identity theft, they took all the money.
> Mr. Coleman: That sounds more like a bank robbery.
[continued] -- see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS9ptA3Ya9E for the full skit.
Just as a handy thing to chuckle over and then link others to, if the topic comes up again.
Eh when you deposit money with a teller, it gets added to your account, which is in physical terms probably just a big storage and a database who has how much.
But in the case of debit card, the card ties the money to your account. It is actually that.
It's as if someone would steal from a personal safe at the bank.
Except that you have strong statutory rights and commercial agreements between your bank and the card networks making it very likely that you’ll be made whole.
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This depends heavily on the country you’re in. In the UK banks are required to refund you within a single business day if they don’t have any evidence that the customer isn’t trying to defraud the bank themselves.
They try to squirm out of that of course. But in general getting your money back isn’t too tricky even with a debit card.
Oh yeah. I should definitely caveat: I am in the US. I think banks here are required to cap your loss to $50 USD if you report unauthorized fraud within two business days. But still, the onus is on you. Meanwhile, virtually all credit cards in the US offer $0 liability protection. Which means at most you pay nothing.
2 business days is a lot more strict than credit cards, which at the very least would not blink an eye at 2 weeks.
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This is where you find out which banks suck, and which do not. I will say that while USAA is a long ways from perfect, when someone swiped my wife's debit card and took $5000 from our checking account, they put that money back within a day while the investigation was pending. No police report necessary, either.
I don’t thing Regulation E allows banks to require a police report before processing an unauthorized payment, nor can they outright refuse to do so.
Practically, Reg E is essentially as strong as Reg Z.
> Practically, Reg E is essentially as strong as Reg Z.
Not even practically, but that's beside the point. The point is that with regulation E, I am potentially put in a position where I have to work to get my money back; I have to file a lawsuit against the bank if I think their determination is wrong (and that's assuming there isn't an arbitration provision, but many people don't realize they agreed to binding arbitration).
With regulation Z, the bank has to work to get their money back. They have to file the lawsuit against me if they really want the money. And it's $0 liability under many circumstances mandated through the regulation, not just a revocable promise from the bank.
> With regulation Z, the bank has to work to get their money back.
Yes, but you potentially have to work to get your credit back.
> And it's $0 liability under many circumstances mandated through the regulation, not just a revocable promise from the bank.
Debit card liability is also largely mandated to be $0 under card scheme rules.