Comment by toomuchtodo

1 month ago

I empathize with the straight white Christian as a fellow human, and wish them support (I donate to organizations that provide crisis support, but this does not scale, we need more scale [community building via robust government support imho]), but also recognize that religious belief is rapidly declining in the US [1], ~100k churches are anticipated to close over the next 5-10 years [2], and so while this support should be provided to the religious folks who need it, it is not a growing or long term support need [3] (imho, specifically in the context of a religious leader providing said support) from a systems thinking perspective. Citations below for this area of the knowledge graph.

TLDR This is a human support capacity and capability issue. We should fix it, to the best of our ability, imho.

[1] Drop in U.S. Religiosity Among Largest in World - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44074017 - May 2025 (283 comments)

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toomuchtodo

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snarf21  1 month ago

I would argue that the change isn't really about the church as an institution. It is about a 'thing' to belong to and a place to go to every week/month. I've been reading Victor Frankl's Man's Search For Meaning and it he talks a lot about having a purpose. That is the thing that we have lost. This is why so many feel so lost. We have always been a tribal species. This is what makes "othering" so powerful in today's political climate. Anyone who looks/thinks/behaves different is bad even if we would otherwise be best friends. Instead we go through each day covering up our loneliness and lost feeling with anything that will distract us.

This isn't even new but it is rapidly accelerating. Roll back to the 40s where all houses had a front porch and people sat around talking to each other. Everyone knew their neighbors and kids played freely and everyone felt more safe and actually connected. Then television came along and people rushed to the living room after dinner instead of to the front porch. Now almost no one knows their neighbors beyond superficial "How are you?"s let alone knowing and hanging out with several. It is so bad now that people in the same family sit on the same couch with the television on but all they are doing is scrolling their phone. And this isn't the last chapter, it is going to get worse when all AI and VR merge into custom hamster wheel content that fills but doesn't satisfy. The solution is for us to re-find our purpose, find a hobby, go outside for a walk, volunteer with a cause, visit people, make phone calls and write letters.

gameman144  1 month ago

I don't think this is an unreasonable view, but it does seem to me that the declining Christianity rates aren't super useful on their own for determining actions from a systems thinking perspective.

Maybe rates are declining because the religion is legitimately not appealing, in which case your action is right. An opponent would say that it's declining because it's culturally discouraged (since even religious pockets are exposed to the national zeitgeist), in which case ignoring it would be the exact opposite of what we'd want to do.

  • toomuchtodo  1 month ago

    I have thoughts on why religion is declining, and I don't believe it's because it's culturally discouraged. Young people want community, but they do not want to be told what to do by a hierarchy and spiritual leaders simply because "they say so" and related historical texts. The power and control through belief systems and hierarchy inherent to religion are breaking down. Is it because of social media [think increased velocity of cultural Overton Window and societal norm transition]? Younger people are more empowered and can support themselves while avoiding these institutions? Brain structure changing as it relates to social needs, fear, and tribalism? Hard to say yet, but I am excited to understand over time as a scholar.

    For comparison, Japan legislated that religious indoctrination and withholding education or healthcare from your children due to religious beliefs should be classified as child abuse.

    https://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/14802375 - December 22nd, 2022